A conversation with author Nadine Muller

3CR ID 0:00

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Flic Manning 0:19

I would like to begin by paying my respects to the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation, who were the traditional custodians of the land on which I am coming to you from today - land where at Brainwaves we tell our stories, and land where the traditional custodians have told their stories for many, many years before us and continue to tell their stories. I would like to pay my respects to elders past and present, and acknowledge all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners who are listening today.

Program ID 0:51

Brainwaves - hear the world differently, bringing community mental health to you, raising awareness and challenging stigma. Tune in to 3CR community radio Wednesdays at 5pm. Melbourne's drivetime radio program featuring community organisations, powerful stories and information. Find us at brainwaves.org.au - proudly sponsored by Wellways Australia.

Flic Manning 1:17

Hello and welcome to brainwaves on 3CR, 855 AM on your dial, via the app or the online stream. I'm Flic Manning and I'm your host. Joining me today is what I would consider to be the living representative of personal power, a 13 times best-selling author of the book A Reason to Rise, a multi seven figure CEO, and former military officer and registered nurse. Nadine Muller, Nadine, welcome to the show.

Nadine Muller 1:43

Oh, thank you so much Flic, what a beautiful introduction. I am so honoured, very grateful to be here with you today. So thank you.

Flic Manning 1:52

Absolute pleasure. Now you have definitely lived a very big life, Nadine, and I think there is just so much wisdom that you've actually derived from a multitude of experiences that you've detailed in your book, but those of you who that have worked in a coaching capacity with Nadine would also be quite aware of some of the stories from her incredible life. So for the purpose of today's interview, we're just going to jump through some of those pivotal moments and chapters in your life. But I like to start with a question that I ask all of my guests on this show - and it seems like a quite a simple question, but I think it really derives such a nuanced answer. So I'm going to pose it to you, Nadine... what does the term mental health mean to you?

Nadine Muller 2:34

What a beautiful question. Here's the thing, you know, whenever someone.... and I have been asked this question before, Flic, so I love that you share it so openly on on radio as well. You know, it is not only one thing. And whenever someone says mental health, it's like, It's just the brain, right? Mental health is, I call it an omni-directional pathway. So when I think of even the word health, and then mental health, if we're focusing just on the mental and just on that brain, and ultimately the thoughts surrounding that, and we're not looking at the other areas, like our emotional health, our spiritual health, our physical, you know, our physical health, and then our even our health around who we are as as individuals and who we are as as beings, and then not that as well... that is how we can describe what mental health is, because at no point can we say it is only ever one area of life, only, okay? It is an it is a multi-layer, an omni-directional layer of health that we can truly call upon - no matter what, if it's... a job, if it's a career, if it's a personal pursuit, or if it's something that you're going through right now, we need more than just a mental health, you know, way of thinking. We need a spiritual health way of thinking. We need an emotional way of thinking. We need a physical way of thinking. It is all the things. And right now, I really invite anyone that's listening - and again, I know this conversation and this, you know, this segment, I really want to, and I'm very specific with how I... not just answer, though, how I share, because I want readers or listeners to hear things that they may never have heard before. And so this conversation, we will likely go through things that aren't mindset-related, because again, if we're staying in the mind, okay, we're out of the heart. So you're going to hear how I respond to things Flic - and again for those people that are listening, I'm going to get you to be quiet in the mind and actually open your heartspace during this whole time. So yes, mental health, you know, focuses on here. I'm going to be getting you out of here and getting you into here and into that beautiful place called our intuition and that health too.

Flic Manning 4:36

Beautiful answer. Nadine, I couldn't agree with you more such a wholistic and broad spectrum view of what mental health is, and I think that there is something to be said for us redefining what the term mental health means - not just broadly for society, but actually what it means for each of us intrinsically as well. And like you said, I also invite everyone to tap into the other areas of their life and to really open up the heart during this conversation. I think so often we get stuck in the mind, and that's not the only place at all that mental health exists - as you so clearly outlined. Nadine. Now you've experienced lots of times, I'm sure, where your mental health has sort of been a little bit iffy here and there, a little stretched in different directions, because you've certainly faced a lot of challenges within your own life. So could you take our listeners through perhaps a time in your life where your mental health has been stretched in some way, or has been a concern for you personally, and if so, how did that present for you, and how did you navigate your way through that?

Nadine Muller 5:40

Yeah... both personally and professionally, I want to speak into - because I know that now more than ever, there's a lot of multi faceted women and men that believe that mentally they're like, I'm... pretty good, I'm actually facing all of this stuff pretty good, but they're actually quite numb to a lot of things that are happening. Now, the reason I want to say this is because, you know, professionally, I was an emergency registered nurse. I was dealing with mental health day in, day out. My profession and area of expertise was mental health, so I knew trauma and mental health. And you can even see how I responded to the question very different beforehand, because my health professional background would have a very different approach to what mental health or view or the conceptualisation of that is, to now, right? And again, similar with the military. I have seen, experienced being exposed to... so much trauma and so and specifically in the emergency department, too, so much trauma, so much, you know, mental health in so many different ways. So it's just really important for you to hear when someone says, you know, I'm really struggling mentally.... I really also invite you to open up what that sounds like and what that looks like beyond the professional and personal standpoint of of mental health. okay? So now going back to my my history and my background... I personally have experienced trauma in ways that, you know, you'd hope and pray that no-one gets to experience. So again, I want to, I want to, I want to say it in this... I am here, living the life that I'm living now, and I have so much gratitude for every experience of deep mental health challenge and deep treasure trove, I'm going to say, of trauma. So I just, I'm going to be really open about that, because if you are going through a really difficult time right now, right now, and you know, you're starting to, you know, get out of the initial crisis mode perhaps, and you're starting to go, What can I now learn from this? And that's a really key note thing to mention, if you are deep in it right now, obviously, that there's a crisis point, you support yourself, and you have the multi-level web of approach, and then you're starting to go, Hey, how can I turn this into a light? If you are there, I'm so excited for you. It's to the point now where I all, I often say, I wish people more challenged because challenge and mental health and my traumas and my past traumas, I will re-say that, my past traumas and the things that I've grown from is actually how I've arrived here and I now do this beautiful work. It put me on my purpose. It led me to my [? guide], it led me to building what I've built now. It's led me to changing so many people's lives. So that's the first thing I want to say, from birth trauma to physical trauma to quite literally, seeing and experiencing trauma at the hands of and those around me... can I just say that when you are in experiences where mental health... so for example, I went through it, I have grown up in a domestic violent home. I also had a partner who is my husband now. I grew up with someone that was mentally very ill - suicidal ideation was our thing. I was a registered nurse, and coming home thinking, when I opened that door, my husband was going to be - and again, trigger, trigger warning for those that are that are listening - that he'd be hanging in our garage when I opened that door, I vividly saw that so many times. There were so many things that he said, I didn't... I was so... and again, the reason why I'm saying this is, it may not be you at the time because you don't think it though, let me tell you, it will become you when you're around it. And then you don't feel like it is you. Though, I was literally caring for my dad, caring for my husband, caring for all these people in the workplace, leading and guiding these people. I also had my mindset business at the time, so I was also professionally, you know, doing the coaching space at the same time - though, I forgot that the person at the centre point of all of this was experiencing huge mental health challenge and battle. So if you're listening to this right now and you feel like you're good, and you're holding everybody else up, I'm going to get you to just take a pause. I'm just going to invite you to take a moment of stillness and to really check in and go, How are you? What happens when you're at a point where you're like, I don't think I can go on anymore. I don't think, you know that if... I remember driving home one day, I was taking... care of my dad. He was on his on his deathbed, essentially, I was taking care of him. And... there was lots of things happening in the home. And I remember driving home and basically nearly having a head-on with the truck. And I remember just going... One, that that would have been okay for a moment, because I would have had a break now listen to that language. Two, that would have just meant all this stuff that I was carrying for everybody else would just come off my shoulders for a bit. Three, maybe that will make everybody wake up - like I can't keep on carrying everybody, alright? And the reason why I want to share this again, is... I was creating all of it. For what purpose was I trying to save the day of people? For what purpose was I trying to to to be the reason why someone stays? There was so much in it, Flic. So...yes, I rattled off a few, and we might tease a few more, and what I mean by tease is weave a few more in there, because there's a lot of mental health challenges that we encountered as we went as well.

Flic Manning 10:59

Wow. Thank you for sharing something so personal with all of us that are listening. And as I mentioned at the beginning, I mean you just you embody that personalisation of power. And I think when you hear the back story that you actually have, even just the sprinkling of the backstory that you've shared there, I think you come to really realise how much power can actually be derived from the experience of traversing that journey. And you've just so beautifully outlined that for us. So anyone listening - honestly, I'm going to say it several times, I'm sure, but go out and get Nadine's book A Reason to Rise. You will not regret it. It is just pack-loaded with the kind of powerful wisdom that she has just shared there.

Nadine Muller 11:44

Yeah, look, Flic, it's... even throughout the book. It is an experience of, like, even at the end, the end chapter is like, you know, everyone wants the end of the book to be the finish. The end is an absolute mess, and it's beautiful. and it's chaotic, and it's all, all-encompassing, and it's beautiful, and that's how I choose to end the book. Because I want people to realise I'm here, I've been put here on this earth, to actually experience what I've experienced, so I can transmute it and transform it into something else, and I can be a lighthouse for people that are experiencing big things right now, or have, or have put it, repressed it, or have have put it to the side and just gone, I'm going to deal with it later. And I'm like, what if you were to deal with it now? What if you were to face the woman or the man or the whatever in the mirror and actually confront it? Because on the other side is a beautiful life for you when you're ready.

Flic Manning 12:40

Couldn't agree with you more. Nadine, many people fear reinvention and change. How have you approached reinvention at a personal level?

Nadine Muller 12:52

You know, Flic, here's the thing... whilst many people will say, you know, I fear change, and I fear what people will think and I fear what could ultimately happen, you know what I truly believe people actually fear? It's actually fearing their own power and who they become when they discover the version of them that they can become. And the reason why I say that is now I cannot unsee or unfeel or unexperience, if you will, all of the women and men and couples and families that we've gone on to completely, you know, support them alongside them, to reinvent who they are. And I'm going to say it's the fear of what they've got to do in order to become that person. And it means letting go of their vices. It means letting go of people that are no longer, you know, part of their future chapters. It means having to release themselves of things that they may have secondary gains, you know, from, if they kept it. It means, you know, becoming a person that... is scary, because it's like, I've never been that person before. That's what I believe people are more fearful of. Because here's the thing, like, change is a constant. I know your question was around change, like, why do people fear change? It's because the unknown of what happens on the other side and who we must become when we change, that's the unknown. That's the scary. So it's like, if we could have certainty in the uncertain, right? And I love that saying so much. I'm walking boldly through some things right now, and I am just bravely, just walking, because I've created so much evidence now of when you walk and you walk despite the fear, despite the What does this mean? Who do I have to become? What's the change that's required? Only then will we experience the magic of change, right? And again, like if change was not the constant, and change is the only constant in life, and we fear that, then we're only... blocking ourselves off from the experiences that this life actually is here to gift us, gift us. So again, in short, what if it's not about change that people are fearing? What it's what if it's about fearing the person that they get to become and what that means? And instead, instead of fearing it, or having to feel like you're fearless, why don't you just walk along with fear and say, Hey, I can see you, and despite you, I'm going to walk anyway.

Flic Manning 15:10

Love that. I think it's such this concept of almost building a partnership with the discomfort of being in the unknown, being in the holding the hand of fear as you move through the journey. And I think it's something that people have to practice. It's a real art form of doing and like you said, gathering the evidence as you go doing it enough that you can actually say, Well, I've done this before. Yes, I don't know exactly where it's going to go in terms of how I will be, what my identity will be on the other side of it, but I've done it enough to know that it works, I've done it enough to know that it's worth taking the next step. So I really, really appreciate your answer on that, Nadine, I really, really do. I think it's just so incredibly poignant. And it brings me back to really talking about your book as well. I mean, obviously you've had all of this experience, and I'm sure that that is part of the reason why you decided to write the book, but what do you what kind of impact are you hoping to actually create with the book? Because I know it's... more of a movement that's actually coming out of this book than simply people reading it was that the intention?

Nadine Muller 16:14

100% it's, it's got its own heartbeat, Flic, like it's just, it's... every day, you know, I'll, I'll receive a message or something, or they've seen it somewhere that I didn't even know it was available at, or... you know, it's someone caught a, you know, a plane ticket or something, and they've arrived at this random airport, and there it is, or... you know, like it's... got its own own life force, truly. And, you know, I always said to myself, you know, I'll write a book one day, and it's so interesting. How long it actually took me to write a book, and I invite anyone listening right now, how long have you been saying, I'm gonna do X, I'm gonna do Y? You know, one day you have to stop saying you're gonna do something, and you're gonna do it, and then one day you're gonna say it's done. And that was this book, and I realised that I had spoken about writing it for far too long, and I was sick and tired of saying I was going to do it. And I knew, I realised that and the impact that gets to be created from it is what's happening now - and again, while people know that it is my story, the story actually is all about the reader, and it's so... I know my story back and front. I've spoken it back and front. And you'll notice that a lot of my stuff that, even when I share and speak on radio, on TV, on... wherever I'm on, a lot of... across a lot of spaces. And you know, I very much speak from a place of the listener or the reader or the the person that's on the other end. Because when you're living a big purpose and a big mission, and you realise that there is work here to be done, I put myself aside from that, and then go, This is what I'm here to speak. So it's not actually about me. It ends up being the reader and the person to actually absorb from it. So you know, the... even when I went to my publisher and said, Hey, yo, this is what I want to do. They were like, Oh, we haven't done X, you know, this before, and this before, I'm like, Well, this is how the book's going to be. So, as part of the book there is... it's actually a whole there's a workbook attached to it. There's an app as part of it. There's all these resources that are part of it. You get to just QR code things. It opens up a whole new thing... you know, it's... you know, you buy a book for $34 you know, depending on where you purchase it from. But it's thousands of dollars of personal professional development and deep embodiment work that someone could absorb by simply purchasing one book. And that's my mission. In this world, you do not need to spend multi 1000s of dollars, you know, to to start the journey of healing and growth and development when you've got people that are, you know, walking in body mode of the work, and they're ready to give you all the things with their book. And that's what I know is happening now. That is what I know. You know, no matter what, even when I'm asleep, the book is making waves. Even when I'm not talking about it, the book is making waves. I've had women and men actually read the book and go on to make some big decisions in their life, personally, professionally, I've had women decide and become, you know, more present mothers. I've had women choose to leave really violent relationships. I've had women choose to take back their power in their birth. I've had young teens, actually, which is really, really beautiful, decide what kind of love they're going to let in. It's just been a really beautiful journey of seeing this book do what it's always designed to do, and that's empower other people to realise that there's not just a reason to rise. There are unlimited reasons to rise, though the person behind that always will be and never will not be, the person living in it.

Flic Manning 19:39

1000% with you. Nadine, 1,000% with you. And I can see that from the reading of the book, personally that I've done myself, it's... there is just exponential resources that come out of this book. But what I really like about it is that I think it's useful for people at any stage of their journey, and it's something that they'll be able to go back to, time and time again.Wherever they're at and whenever they're getting to that point where they think they need to be making a change, or they're sitting in the discomfort, or something's... gnawing at them, you can revisit those resources and find a way to rise from what you've actually shared. So it's something that I think will be quite multi-generational, which, in and of itself, is extremely powerful. So well done to you on that. As an author myself, I understand the journey, so I get the experience of it, and it's quite... it's such a moving experience to know when your book has really landed with that impact, and I know yours absolutely has, and obviously you're a 13 times bestseller. So hats off to you. So, incredible. Nadine, we've only got time for one final question. I can't believe we've burned through our time already, but I really think this would be a nice one to end for our beautiful audience who have been on this journey with you today... if there's one little nugget of wisdom that you could impart to our listeners today about their ability to rise even in life's hardest, most... darkest moments. What would that nugget be?

Nadine Muller 21:04

Yeah, there's so many here, Flic. You know, so many people are talking into a lot of like, generational trauma, right? And how much we're wanting to cut that... we do, that work on our our retreats, you know, let's, let's break the cycles and the chains of certain things. I love that so much. I also though, from that, and coinciding with that, the work that we do here is about bringing through generational wisdom. Now, the reason I want to say that is so many people are actually disconnected from their bloodline, from their lineage, from where... their cells and their body and everything that makes up them makes up them. So I really invite you, if you're going through a really big, deep, you know, excavation, and it's purely a beautiful invitation for you to grow. And though, if you're really in it, and you're in it right now, I invite you to go back to your lineage. And what I mean by that is just actually invite you to go, What would they do? How would they show up in these times? What treasure trove or reservoir do I have within, to create the resilience, the tenacity, the greatest risen era, if you would like, if you want to pull that out of the book and say, What do I need to do? Who do I need to be? What part of me needs to emerge in this experience, for me to grow from it, for me to walk straight through it, for me to realise that the obstacle in the way is the way. And sometimes, when we realise that... we don't have to do these things alone, right? Like you can literally put people in your corner, you use that beautiful voice of yours, you open your heart to go, Hey, I'm really struggling right now. Or Hey, I'm in it right now. I need to make the moves. Because what we see over and over again is people just looping, looping and indecision, looping in This is really hard. What is harder is staying where you are. So I really invite you, one, to go, Okay, if I was to tap into my internal wisdom, my internal Oracle, so my... your intuition, your you, your version of you that you are already and tap into the thing outside of your brain, outside of the mindset, tap in spiritually, and then go, What would my lineage, what would my bloodline, what would my guides say for me in this moment? Now again, you know that might even be like for some people, if you're new to spirituality or faith, or you yet to tap open that part of you, I really just invite you. You will have a whole area of support, if you will, more than you know. And then this is including the web of support. Call in if it feels great, call in the therapist, call in the psychologist, call in the coach, call in the mentor, call in all the things... have your advisory board, though. But can I tell you the answers will always, only ever be from within - and you have the master key, and it will open every single door. And what if, in this very phase and stage and story and chapter that you're in, that when you realise the internal part of you that can awaken from this experience, like and then the reason why I'm so big about this is because this is my whole life's work, right? This is how I've allowed people to turn and transmute something really horrific at the time, to something incredibly beautiful. And, you know, I have a whole area called Bloom where it's like, Hey, let's be that seed and let's just bloom from this. What is the learning from this? Okay, where is and again, I talk about that master key a lot - if you can just go, I've got the key I know my way out of here. This might be, might be foreign, but I'm going to use that, want to start opening doors. And the first door is realising that you have that master key within. Allow yourself to never, never be defeated by whatever you're feeling. Okay. You can feel sad. You can feel like you're, you know, completely overwhelmed with everything that's going on. Though, you get to choose at all times, Hey, I get to feel this. I get to see this. I get to experience this. What is this teaching me? Though, let us not unpack my bags and stay here. I will not be defined by this story. I will actually create from this point forward. What is this going to guide me to next? And again, there's a quite a number of things there you get to listen into, perhaps, pause, you know, go back and hear that again. Write something down, create a mantra. And even if you have to say that to yourself over and over, heart is not impossible, whatever it is for you. And I was going through hyperemesis gravidarum, which is basically a pregnancy, a condition in pregnancy, which I was basically in hospital for the whole time. If you're you know, when I was experiencing that, I was just like, hard is not impossible. Like this is building me. Now, when I look back on my HG pregnancy, I go, Wow, that version of me makes so much of my life easy. Whenever I'm experiencing... anything that's a little bit hard, I go... Do you remember your HG pregnancy, girl? You had nothing except for yourself lying in a bed. You had bed sores, that's how much you were in bed for. You couldn't eat, you couldn't drink, you couldn't move your body, you couldn't read, because you were just, you were so... like you were so exhausted, you couldn't do anything, you had nothing except for your heartbeat, And then an unborn baby that was ready to be birthed into this world. You can do the hard things. So just again, if you're listening to this right now, take some moment of introspect. Go back to your lineage. Go back to your bloodline. What would they say to you in this moment? Tap into your spiritual self and allow yourself the gift of... realising that you have themaster key.

Flic Manning 26:20

Beautiful that whole... just the very concept of actually having the master key, I think that's such a beautiful visualisation that people can grab onto. And like you said, it always, the answers always come from within. I think that's part of the beauty of being a human being. It can also be part of what scares people, part of that realisation that it's not going to come from somebody else telling them to go left or to go right or make a particular decision, but all of that stuff is in there, and it's you having to kind of tap into it and sit with it and to work with it. But that's just such a beautiful concept, the master key. And I think everyone at home, or driving their car home today or wherever you are listening to this will really grab onto that. Now Nadine, as I mentioned, unfortunately, we do have to wrap up. We've used up all of our time. I swear I could talk to you for two hours on all of this subject matter, but... beautifully, everyone at home, this is why Nadine has created the beautiful book. So make sure you do get out and grab yourself a copy of A Reason to Rise. Or you can obviously head to her website, Nadine Muller dot com dot AU... for all of her wonderful resources, as well as her retreats and all of the coaching and mentoring work that she does, and of course, her supportive community Bloom, which is also mentioned as well. Nadine, thank you again for being on the show.

Nadine Muller 27:33

Thank you so much. Flick, an absolute pleasure, and excited to see so many more women absolutely rise from their rubble.

Flic Manning 27:40

Absolutely. Now everyone at home, as I always do before we wrap up the show, I encourage you to remember that your mental health is of equal importance to your physical health. So if you're yet to do so today, please take a moment now to have a nice big inhale... a deep exhale... shower yourself in the kindness that you so easily give to others. I look forward to joining you next time on Brainwaves.

3CR ID 28:09

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