Blind Barbie

00:05 S1

This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.

00:10 S2

Hold out your hand. Oh my goodness.

00:13 S3

Oh, it is cool. Oh. What is she wearing though?

00:16 S4

Oh it's a pink...

00:18 S3

Skirt.

00:18 S4

Mini skirt and high heels. I love it.

00:21 S3

I'm also wearing pink today.

00:22 S4

Okay.

00:23 S3

And high heels. So go, Barbie. Oh, my goodness. And the cane.

00:29 S4

Good size. Do you feel on top of her head?

00:31 S3

Oh, is that glasses?

00:32 S4

Yep.

00:33 S3

Oh, she's so cute. Oh my goodness. Oh, I love her. Oh. She's adorable. That is so cool. I could see the kids loving that.

00:49 S4

Hello, I'm Sam.

00:51 S3

And I'm Lizzie.

00:52 S4

And this is Studio 1, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view... here on Vision Australia Radio.

00:57 S3

On this week's show....

00:58 S4

We look at the sensation that is Blind Barbie.

01:01 S3

Sam brought a Barbie doll.

01:03 S4

For research purposes only. Mm. 

01:06 S3

I take Barbie out for a walk and ask a few friends what they think. Is it representation or tokenism?

01:13 S4

We also look at the responses of the able-bodied world via facebook comments.

01:17 S3

As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show whether you have any experience with the issues covered in this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help someone who is dealing with something similar.

01:34 S4

Please contact us by email. studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.

01:39 S3

Or you can drop us a note on our socials. Just look for VA Radio Network. The first ever blind Barbie doll has just been released. This Barbie comes with a cane and dark glasses, as well as textured clothing, so that children who are blind or have low vision can feel.

01:57 S4

Toymaker Mattel collaborated with several organisations dedicated to aiding the blind community to create the doll.

02:04 S3

For people who are blind and low vision, knowing that there's now a Barbie across the world that represents them is really exciting. It helps the wider community understand that something like the white cane is not necessarily a sign of weakness, but it's a tool.

02:19 S4

Well, how about this? Mattel taking another step to expand its Barbie brand by releasing more diverse dolls to its Barbie's Barbie Fashionistas line. So Mattel says that the new dolls, known as Blind Barbie and the black Barbie doll with Down Syndrome. They were each developed with the assistance of the American Foundation for the blind and the National Down Syndrome Society. Mattel says the inclusive range of dolls are designed to reflect the world kids see today.

02:46 S3

The manufacturer, Mattel, added Braille to the packaging. In an official statement, the manufacturer wrote, through these new dolls, even more children can find a Barbie that represents them and tell their own stories, with her, showing pictures there of the Barbie. But you know what? I've actually got one. I've got one here. One we prepared earlier. I've got one here. I'm going to very gently take her out of the box.

03:13 S4

Hello, Lizzie.

03:14 S3

Hi, Sam. How are you today? 

03:17 S4

I am good. And you? We are joined by a special guest right now, aren't we? She's sitting there right in front of you, but. Well, she's... on her back right now, I've got to say though.

03:25 S3

Well I can... always change that. But I mean, there we go. She's so pretty.

03:30 S4

It's...yeah. It's perfect. I mean, I bought a doll to include in a radio show. So yes, she looks very good for radio. 

03:40 S3

I'm just going to stop you there.

03:41 S4

Way better than us.

03:42 S3

I'm just going to stop you there, Sam, and say whatever helps you sleep at night, mate. You tell yourself whatever you need to. It's all good.

03:49 S4

It will make a very good tax return next year. Trying to say. All right. Yeah. Get a call from the ATO saying, Barbie doll - really? Mm. And we can just play them the show. But anyway, so we've already got your reactions to when you first met her - is there any other thing? Anything else you want to add? 

04:09 S3

Yes. I absolutely love the fact that that she's kitted out in, you know, the classic Barbie skirt and top with the high heels, because it goes back to the old, you know, the age old discussion that we've had a few times on this show and I know that, you know, goes around quite a lot and that is that blind people or certain blind people are fashion conscious. You know, there are those of us out there that like to wear high heels and makeup. I wear high heels and makeup quite a lot. I love to wear pretty clothes and so do a lot of other blind females. So this doll and the way it's dressed and oh, it's perfect, I love her. I can't wait to take her home and straighten her hair and braid her hair and do all sorts of things with her hair and just experiment. This is going to be such fun, dear listener.

04:56 S4

I will explain that at the time of recording, we haven't recorded anything more of the show. This doll only arrived today and I picked it up at the post office this morning. So Lizzie will be taking her out to Beyond Blindness in South Australia and getting a few people to have a bit of a play and a bit of a look around. 

05:15 S3

Yes, and also I'm catching up with one of my mates for coffee and she's definitely, you know, one of those fashion conscious individuals. So I can't wait to hear what she has to say about this amazing toy.

05:27 S4

And also this week we are including some of the more interesting comments from facebook thanks to Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide's fantastic army of volunteers. I mean, this... was, I think, which got me into wanting to do this show, was the responses that you saw on facebook to this Courier Mail article... did you see much of it?

05:53 S3

I did, in fact... a good friend of the show, Jodie, had shared it on her facebook page with the caption that, you know, Oh, some of the comments in the post below are really disgusting and they show the ignorance and intolerance of certain people. And you know, I love a good bit of drama, I guess. So I actually went and I read the comments and I've got to say, listening to our readers... read those comments and remembering just how I felt, I think they encapsulate, you know, that attitude perfectly. So well done to you. Fantastic job.

06:30 S4

So let's see what the able-bodied population thinks when a toy is released for people with a disability. And how funny a headline from the Courier Mail is when it says the first blind Barbie doll to hit the shelves. Why make one? 

06:51 S10

Blind kids that lay with Barbies can't see them to know they are blind Barbies. Just another way the world's going mad, WTF - stupidity knows no bounds.

07:01 S11

Woke nonsense.

07:02 S1

Oh please, This is getting ridiculous. Now the next one will be a transgender Barbie doll.

07:08 S12

Blind Barbie obviously needs a guide dog if she's hitting the shelves. Just need Ken with a rum bottle. He can be blind as well.

07:17 S10

Should at least come with beer and spirit bottle accessories.

07:20 S13

I can't see what the fuss is.

07:23 S11

I can't see this being a hit.

07:25 S10

I can't see this becoming popular.

07:27 S6

OMG, do you mean all the other Barbies can see?

07:31 S10

Wow, these negative comments are so childish. But I guess you can't put brains in monuments. Looking forward to the one-legged dwarf transgender Indian feather, not dot Barbie to be released from the mental institution.

07:45 S6

How will the blind know they are on the shelves?

07:48 S12

How do they know what they're playing with?

07:51 S10

The kids who play with it can't see it. I'm guessing that it's deaf as well.

07:56 S11

Didn't see that one coming.

07:57 S12

Where's hearing impaired and incontinence Barbie?

08:01 S10

Barbie makers wait until the blind kids see this. We're were utter geniuses. Also Barbie makers. Why did our sales tank?

08:08 S13

Love watching all of the girls thinking they are a wit and they're half right? Somehow they think mocking disabilities is just a joke.

08:17 S10

Can you see it? Well, you're not blind, but I can't see the point.

08:21 S12

Well, it didn't see the shelf, hence why it hit the shelf.

08:25 S10

Hit the shelves.

08:26 S12

Been looking, but can't see it for sale anywhere.

08:29 S10

I reckon 90% of the people who commented on this thread need to lose their sight, or lose their ability to type in keyboard warriors. Humanity is dead. 100% sure after reading that you guys right? I thought they were all blind.

08:43 S12

Without putting too fine a point on it... because Barbie dolls are made out of plastic, they are all blind and have always been blind.

08:54 S13

Is she okay about hitting the shelves?

08:56 S12

No wonder she hit the shelves. She's blind.

08:59 S10

Seriously. What's next? Best Barbie. It's all about the money Money, money.

09:04 S1

So they made tranny Barbies before they made a blind one. What a fucking generation we have.

09:09 S10

Wait, the others can see. Damn, I can imagine every kid begging to have one.

09:14 S12

Last time I checked, all dolls were blind and deaf and couldn't speak.

09:18 S6

From someone who was vision impaired, these comments are disgusting.

09:23 S14

Well, then it's time for small, medium and or large penis can purely for inclusivity purposes because currently he only identifies as, well, none of these.

09:35 S1

I bet blind kids can't wait to see it.

09:38 S10

Love this, but it seems the uneducated think blind do not play or something. Also, having no vision at all is the rarest and most extreme form of blindness. So stop belittling something you have no understanding of.

09:50 S14

I guess you have to create deaf Barbie and maybe dwarfism Barbie, maybe Barbie with ADHD or a Barbie that captures all disabilities.

10:00 S10

Her eyes are open. Take away the cane, normal.

10:03 S15

Baby.

10:07 S4

If you comment on something on facebook, it is public property. It is then the property of matter itself and they can publish it anywhere where they want. I've said this in the past. If you are prepared to stand on the top of your house and shout something, that's when you should place it on facebook because it may come back to hurt you.

10:27 S3

I tend to agree. I mean social media in general, whether it be Facebook, Twitter and you know, so many people post things daily. And I think in this world where a saturation of social media content is prevalent, you know, people are just posting anything and everything that they feel like not, you know, realising or not thinking about the fact that this stuff is actually public. Anybody that wants to can look that up, they can see your name and what you've said, and that can reflect badly on you. I mean, people have lost their jobs over things that have been said on social media.

11:08 S4

And, well, it does not... behave well to the general population that the majority of the comments on this particular article were negative and ignorant. I mean, one article I saw said, Why has she got her eyes open?

11:25 S3

Wow. That's absurd. I haven't seen that. That is absurd. That is absolutely absurd. I mean, one of the basic things, the basic principles of communication that we are taught as blind and vision impaired people are that, you know, you should try and make eye contact if you can, or just keep your eyes open when you're talking with people... like this is absurd. The ignorance. I cannot believe it. It absolutely astounds me.

11:53 S4

And the same people making, well, people making the same joke over and over again, which that's rather sad. I mean, it's like, Oh I'm so clever because toys can't see. Gee, really? Yeah.

12:09 S3

I mean, the fact that the the that particular joke and I know the one you're talking about was shared by more than one person, obviously denotes the fact that it's not an original thought. It's not an original joke. It's a very overused joke. It's... lame. It's very tired. It's lame. It's nothing new. It's nothing we haven't heard before. I mean, you can keep cracking those jokes if it makes you feel better. But seriously, you're not funny.

12:37 S4

That said, we can crack those jokes because, well, we're living this life. And sometimes. And sometimes elements of this life are funny.

12:46 S3

Oh, yeah.

12:47 S4

But that's the same with minority groups all over the world and different types. A gay person can make gay jokes because that's the life they're living, and that's the sort of thing that happens. A black person can joke about being black. But I don't have the right to do that. And I don't have the right to make jokes about gay people either.

13:08 S3

Well, see, I think I mean, comedy has always been a blurred line, hasn't it? Because what can you say? And what can't you say? What can and can you not make jokes about? And I don't think it's fair to limit the jokes that people want to make. But if you're not a comedian and your life's blood is not to make jokes and be funny, maybe you should just show a little, like sensitivity and maybe give a little bit of thought to the people that you're joking about. So, Stephen, I have got something to show you. Oh, really? Are you in there? You all definitely heard about this little... it's a bag of jellybeans. It's not a bag of jelly beans. I'm sorry. Jelly babies. Oh, no. It starts with a B.

13:59 S17

Oh. What? That. Oh, I can see it from here. Yes.

14:02 S3

This is, I can say, the new blind Barbie. And there, if I can get this cane. Oh, what do you think?

14:10 S17

Oh, wow. My first Barbie doll. That is so cool. Okay. Yeah, she's got... urban, like, sort of brownish hair. She has glasses. And the thing is... something another detail is, we're blind people. Yeah. Sometimes our eyes don't, like, look straight ahead or look at or look... in a certain direction... they kind of look upwards. Sometimes her eyes are set, so they sort of facing upwards. So she's looking upwards.

14:42 S3

And... have you seen what she's sporting on the top of her head?

14:44 S17

Yeah, a pair of sunglasses. Yeah.

14:47 S3

So what do you think of the doll? Because there has been a lot of backlash against Mattel for creating a Barbie that blind and visually impaired kids can relate to. So what are your personal feelings about this?

15:05 S17

I think it's unreal... It's inclusive, I suppose. I don't know. I think the next step is to bring out, like, another accessory. Like saying dog Barbie. You know... the only the only problem is the, well, I suppose now it matches perfectly because the cane is the same proper length for the doll.

15:25 S3

Aria because I thought it was a bit long.

15:26 S17

It is a bit long, but so is Barbie's legs. If you if if Barbie was real, Barbie would be seven foot tall. So she needs a six foot tall cane.

15:36 S3

So if you. I mean, I know it's a bit ridiculous to ask a man this question, but if you had a figurine, for example, or a doll or some sort of representation of a blind person that you could play with or interact with as a kid, do you think that would have made you feel any different? 

15:58 S17

Well, being a bloke, I'd still play with that if I was a kid. Like a little boy. I reckon. It's awesome. I can't believe you actually got one.

16:07 S3

Well, Sam got it. So, what do you think of all the people that are making, you know, ignorant jokes and ableist comments about the doll and saying that it's just gone too far?

16:19 S17

It's definitely, I think it's perfect... I mean, we've we've had disabled Barbie in the past. We've had like... we've had Barbies with walking frames. We've had Barbies in wheelchairs. So it's only the next step to bring out a Barbie with a... cane. I do think next step from that would be like a seeing eye dog, like a little Labrador Barbie. I reckon that would be great. Oh, wouldn't that be cool? Or a blind Ken. You know, if you want to be inclusive, you know, we need a blind Ken doll as well. Yes, I think it's perfect. The cane is great. I do think it should be foldable. So she could take it off and put it, like under her arm or whatever, but, you know, one step at a time, and it's perfect. It's... white. It has the red bottom on it. I think it's red or a dark colored bottom. It should be red. And it's got a round ball on it. It's  absolutely perfect. Yeah. It's awesome. 

17:15 S3

Well I'm glad you like it.

17:16 S17

Yeah. Thanks. Mine.

17:18 S3

Yeah.

17:18 ? Speaker 

No, it's the station's. Oh, cool.

17:27 S18

So what's your first impressions of the doll?

17:30 S19

Well, she looks pretty normal to me, because from what I can see here. Can I take her? Yeah. Thank you. It'll be better. Can you...

17:38 S3

Just loops over.

17:39 S19

The hand? Okay. She just looks like she's staring straight ahead. And I assume that most Barbie dolls do the same. I don't know, it's been years since I've seen a Barbie doll. I'm now going to take out my magnifying glass and I'm going to have a look. Good idea. Yes. Yeah, but she has lovely glittery eyeshadow.

17:56 S3

She does? Yes, I like that. Yeah.

17:59 S19

To me. Well it's I mean depend, you know, blind people all have different ways of looking at. If you look at somebody, you can't always tell that they're blind anyway. So it still can't work out how to get this thing on to you. Yep. He'll pop it up here. Okay.

18:15 S3

You leave it like that.

18:18 S19

Even.

18:18 S20

Help me out here, please.

18:21 S19

You got to go over her hand. That's fine. Okay.

18:25 S3

And what about the length? Oh. Hang on. No. Hey, put your finger in there, Bob. Let's go. What about the length of the cane?

18:33 S19

The length of the cane? Well, she is tall. It seems to go out a fair way. Does that need to be a little bit shorter? Which I suppose it cannot. Whoops. I just took it off again. That's okay.

18:44 S3

Stephen and I were doing the measurements yesterday, and I reckon by the looks of it, it comes right up to her chin.

18:50 S19

Well, if you took it off, it would take it off. It's literally just not quite up to. Yeah, virtually up to the chin. So the cane is long, but then she is tall. Yeah, Cheers. But I think she'd probably trip a few people over if they weren't aware of the fact that she had a cane. So it is cute.

19:11 S3

It is. Do you think it's a good representation of of blind women as a whole? Um.

19:17 S19

Well, the cane, yes, but she's got high heels on, which is probably something that.

19:24 S3

So, Cheyenne, you have the the blind Barbie? Yes. Did you play with Barbies as a kid? I'm a little bit...

19:32 S21

I didn't, like play with them as much. But a little bit, yeah.

19:38 S3

Were you much of a doll person as a kid? 

19:40 S21

No. No. No.

19:41 S3

So what do you think of Blind Barbie? Just, you know, for a first impressions of her. 

19:47 S21

I like her hair. I like I like what she's wearing. The cane is quite long. Yep. And I like that the glasses are on top of her head and not over her eyes Because it kind of shows that, you know, you can be blind and have glasses, but you don't necessarily have to be wearing them all the time. And yeah, I quite like her.

20:12 S3

Do you think that it is a a fair representation of blind females?

20:18 S21

I think so, yeah. I think apart from the cane being quite long. Yeah, I think it definitely is.

20:23 S3

And if you could like obviously if you could ask Mattel, the makers of Barbie, to make any improvements on the doll, what would you suggest to make it more representative of blind females?

20:37 S19

Oh...

20:38 S21

I think I would probably get them or ask them to definitely make the cane a little bit smaller. Yep. And yeah, I think that's probably about it really. Like I think it's a really good representation of... blindness.

20:57 S3

There's been some people who have said that the clothing and the fact that she's wearing heels and stuff is, you know, a bit, um, like, sends the wrong message to blind females that they need to look like that. Do you think that's the case or do you think it's empowering?

21:11 S21

I think it's empowering because I think that, um, you know, it shows that, you know, blind people are care about how they look as well, just as much as sighted people do.

21:21 S3

Amazing.

21:22 ? Speaker

Thank you, thank you.

21:27 S4

Okay. And that was your friend Shianne. So. And the magic of the eye, which cuts out all the amazing... background noise. So, we did find an interesting thing. There was a different theme that seemed to develop when you were talking to people, wasn't there?

21:42 S3

Yes, actually it was, you know, the doll's clothes, in the way that she presented herself. In fact... talking to a few sighted people, they pointed out that her outfit is actually purple, whereas we had stated before that it was pink. I...

21:56 S4

Well, we're dealing with a totally blind person and a colourblind person, so that's not the first time I've got that wrong. And considering that, yes, my football team actually wears purple, so I should have known that. But do they? Yeah, they are... the not so mighty Dockers who...

22:14 S3

Yes, got beaten on the weekend by Port Adelaide. Exactly, exactly, yes. But... interestingly enough too, I showed Blind Barbie to a few of my sighted friends as well. And one of the most common questions that popped up was, Why is she wearing high heels? Or why is she wearing makeup? Because she's actually wearing a glittery shadow on her eyes. And my reply was that, you know, there are those of us blind and vision impaired women who do choose to dress up and wear makeup and wear heels and... express ourselves through fashion.

22:45 S4

I have known some women who don't necessarily take much effort on that kind of thing, but they tend to be in the minority, really. I mean, the majority of women I've known with a vision impairment do care about how they look, especially because you can't see, to do that. So there is a lot more sort of effort put into the physical appearance and that sort of stuff.

23:07 S3

I think it's more prevalent in the younger generations, and also those that lost their vision later in life because they already knew what it was to wear make up and to dress up and look their best. And also with the education nowadays around how to apply makeup. And, you know, with the the introduction, the very slow introduction of accessible beauty products, it is becoming more easier for blind and vision impaired women to put in the effort to... go out and put their best foot forward. So I think we're going to speak to Lily now, who actually had quite a bit to say on the subject when I spoke to her about this, and she had lost her vision later in life. And I think she's going to tell us about what she likes to do and how it makes her feel. 

23:50 S4

What was the question you asked her again?

23:53 S3

I asked her how important she thought it was for blind and vision impaired women to put their best foot forward, as it were, when they go out, as with concerns to their appearance.

24:05 S21

I think it's very important.

24:07 S22

I think it's very, very important. In fact, I'm a huge advocate for... women in particular, disability, to still be able to dress really nicely, to still be able to look... to put makeup on, to do their hair. You know, people will make the comment, but you but you can't see it. But I see other people can see it, though. Other people can see it. And I, I think that whole look good feel good and, you know, and the, the way you present yourself, the way you enter a room and the impact you make on people, no matter where that is. I think that's really important. And I also think there's a misconception that when you have a disability or vision impairment or whatever it may be, that you still can't be desirable, you know, and, uh, that might be crossing over into another conversation. 

But... I still think it's really important to store as a woman be, you know, to be you know, to be, to look attractive, to look presentable, to look... empowered almost because you, you know, you hold your head high and I think... I used to love and I don't do it so much now since I've become a para athlete. And, you know, I'm not getting in the corporate gear anymore. But I used to love being able to get up in the morning, put on some nice corporate gear, you know, a pair of heels, do my hair and makeup, then put my dog in my left hand and walk down the street of Parramatta in Sydney with my head held high, with my dog doing the work and feeling quite empowered. 

And people will, would, stop me and go, Are you training that dog? I say, No, no, she's mine. And they go, Wow, gosh, that's not what we again, that's not what we expected. And I know, you know, I love that. I'm chuffed when people say to me, that's not what I expect. I said, Good, then my job's done.

25:56 S24

I've had a very similar experience.

25:58 S22

I want to, I want to look like any other woman going to work walking down the street. I want to look like any other woman. Maybe sometimes better. But you know what it's like with a dog, Lizzie. You're going to attract attention. And I remember when I got her, a colleague at Vision Australia said to me, because I wasn't sure I was in tears going, Oh, I'm not sure if I'm ready. I'm not sure if I'm ready. And he said to me, Yeah, you're ready. But he said, remember, he said, you're not invisible and you're not going to be invisible anymore. He said, You're going to attract a lot of attention... and because of the dog, people will want to know about it. They'll want to pet it. They'll want to engage. They want to, you know... so all of a sudden, you're not invisible anymore. People will will see the dog, look at you, look you up and down, kind of trying to figure it all out, you know? And then people just want to help you, so... 

But yes, to answer your question, absolutely. I think it's I think it's very, very important, I really do. I think it's important to just be out there and and looking. I think it's good for anyone, any solid person as well, to get out there and look their best no matter what they're doing.

27:12 S4

So before we go and before we say our big thank you to all our wonderful guests this week, there's been some interesting developments in the city of Melbourne - where they have decided to ban e-scooters. We have got a request in with the Melbourne City Council to see if someone wants to talk about that. I think this is quite a development. What do you think, Lizzie?

27:30 S3

I think a lot of the the blind and vision impaired population will be quite happy about this. I know a lot of people see it as a threat or a danger to pedestrians, so maybe we can get some opinions from our our friends in the community as well.

27:45 S4

I'll definitely give us a give us a hoy. And if you start to notice any difference in Melbourne, then please let us know. Because yes, we want to hear from you. Of course.

27:52 S3

Well, that is a wrap for this week's show. A big thank you to Steven, Lenore, Shianne and Lily.

28:01 S4

And also thank you to Jody Willis Roberts for bringing this to our attention. We would not have been able to put this show together if she hadn't actually posted what she did on facebook. So big thank you to Big Jody.

28:12 S3

And of course, thanks to everyone for listening.

28:14 S4

Next week with the Paralympics in full swing, we look back at how things have changed and talked to a few veterans of Paralympics past.

28:22 S3

But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have any experience with the issues covered in this week's episode of Studio 1, or whether you think there's something we should be talking about. You never know - your story and insight may help someone who is dealing with something similar.

28:37 S4

You can email us, studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.

28:42 S3

Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our facebook. Just go to facebook.com slash VA Radio Network. We want to hear from you.

28:50 S4

Maybe you can tell us what you think of the Barbie doll. Bye bye for now.

28:53 S1

Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the community broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.