The Boy Scout Syndrome

00:04 S1

This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.

00:09 ?Speaker

I mean, yeah, it's kind of tricky because you don't want to discourage people from wanting to help people with disabilities, like, but at the same time, if they don't ask and they just assume like, Hey, I'm going to grab your arm and we're going to go over here and just over pointing things out and stuff can be a little frustrating at times. 

00:30 ?Speaker

So that would probably go back into your decision not to carry a white cane from time to time. Yeah. If you can travel incognito, you travel incognito.

00:37 ?Speaker

Exactly. Yeah.

00:43 Sam

Hello, I'm Sam.

00:44 Lizzie

And I'm Lizzie.

00:45 Sam

And this is Studio 1, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio.

00:50 Lizzie

On this week's show, while it is nice when someone offers to help out, is it possible for them to be over helpful?

00:58 Sam

We uncover the Boy Scout syndrome.

01:02 Lizzie

As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar.

01:16 Sam

As usual, you can contact us via Email, Studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.

01:23 Lizzie

Or of course, you can drop us a comment on our Facebook page by going to facebook.com slash VA Radio Network.

01:31 Sam

Hello Lizzie, how are we going today?

01:33 Lizzie

I must admit, Sam, I am sorry. I am all in a fluster today. I've had one of those days.

01:39 Sam

What has happened?

01:41 Lizzie

Well, as you know, my routine on a day such as today is to go to the gym and then enjoy a nice lunch at a bakery. I usually get a nice sandwich or a roll, but that's neither here nor there. Today I was having a rather in-depth conversation with my support worker about Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, and for some unknown reason, left my phone on the table at the bakery. 

It wasn't until I was grabbing my laptop bag to come here, and I was getting ready to put my phone in said laptop bag when I realised that I'd left it at the cafe. So I had to go back to the cafe, hoping and praying all the while that it was still there. Luckily for me, it was. And then I had to come back here. And that's why I'm running late and that's why I'm flustered and oh boy, I've never...

02:28 Sam

Well, I've left things behind in the past. And like you, I've been lucky that they've stayed there. But I've never really lost my phone before. I've known some people who have left their phones in the toilet, for example, and had them retrieved by dwarves. But that's another story.

02:44 Lizzie

Oh, well, you'll have to tell me that story one day. I'm not one for losing my phone usually, either. It's attached to my hip. I mean, for me, my phone is my lifeline. Everything that I do, most of the things that I do every day is on my phone as a visually impaired person. Our phone is a very useful tool, so it's unlike me to leave it behind anywhere but oh, I tell you what, I was in a panic. I was in a fluster. I was.

03:09 Sam

Well, you might have been able to find someone who can help you out, and they might have been a little over-helpful. Yes. So the reason why I've named this episode The Boy Scout Syndrome is I came up with this a number of years ago, and that is... so if you picture there's a Boy Scout wandering down the road, he's after his badge in helping ladies across the road, and he comes across an old lady and helps her across the road, then wanders off thinking, I've done that. I'm giving my... badge for wonderful doing this. Not really asking if the old lady wanted to be helped across the road, or even wanted to go across the road in the first place. What do you think? Is that a good analogy?

04:00 Lizzie

I think the other thing, or the other analogy I would use is similar, and it is that a lot of people go around trying to do their good deed for the day because, you know, it absolves them of any of the bad things that they do. I don't know how people's minds work, and they will often do their good deed of the day without actually thinking about how that good deed is affecting someone, even if it's in a good or a bad way. They just think, I've done my good deed, I'm good, I'm absolved, and that's it. 

Well, it might have been the worst deed in the world if you'd just thrown somebody off course, and now they're completely lost as to where they're going. So you haven't really done your good deed, but if it absolves you of your moral dilemma, then so be it. So yeah, I would say this... the Boy Scout analogy is very good.

04:49 Sam

This is an interesting little subject we sort of stumbled across, wasn't it, when we were sort of working out questions and it was like, I think we came up at the same time. It was like, what about over-helpful people? I mean, have you got any stories to tell with this kind of thing?

05:03 Lizzie

Oh, how much time have you got? I've got so many. I think the more blind you look, the more of these people you tend to get. So I had it a lot with the cane, but even more so with the dog. I think people just want an excuse to get close to Layla. That's fine. I have a story. Actually. I was in my first week of training with Lacey, and this was when I was volunteering at Radio Adelaide. So I was in the city and I was walking back to the train station after finishing my day's worth of work, and I was aiming for the crosswalk, like the traffic lights, and I'd just gone a little bit too far to the right. 

Some woman came up and grabbed Lacey's harness and literally yanked us over to the crosswalk. Didn't say a word, just yanked us over. By the way, I will add that my Seeing Eye Dogs instructor was right behind us about ten metres and she come running up and she was, Hey, you can't do that. And that was when the woman spoke and was like, Well, she was off the crosswalk and I was just helping her. My instructor had to explain the dangers of distracting the dog, and we had this whole rigmarole hullabaloo. It was not a good, not a good scene.

06:21 Sam

And I suppose the response was, I was only just trying to help.

06:24 Lizzie

Yes, yes. Which I had to explain that it wasn't at all helpful because I thought my dog had, you know, decided to dive for something and I was unsure of what was going on. And, you know, the fact that she wasn't speaking to me, you know, didn't alert me to her presence. I didn't know what was going on - so far from being helpful, it was actually quite the opposite. It was a real hindrance.

06:52 Sam

I mean, I suppose, dear listener, if you are able-bodied and happen to be listening to us. Don't get us wrong, we are appreciative sometimes when someone offers to help us out because, well, we have a disability and sometimes we need help. And don't be afraid if someone looks like they're struggling, don't be afraid to say, Hey, are you okay? Do you need a hand there? But also, don't be offended if they politely say No, sorry... I'm fine. Or if I've had a bad day, we might be a little less polite and say No, because we're allowed to have bad days too.

07:26 Lizzie

We are. I don't know why we... I think there's a common misconception that because we are disabled, we're automatically looking for help. So then whenever it's offered to us, we are expected to take it up. Yes. Now, for the most part, if I need help, I'll ask. And if someone offers me help and I genuinely do need it, of course I'll take it. But if I'm just walking along like this day, I knew where I was going and I mean, our [?] off the crosswalk. But that's, this is why we were training Lacey to find these things. She'd never been in Adelaide before a day in her life. So it was training her to find that. So you you know, this person wasn't very being very helpful. But if I do need assistance, I will take you up on it and I will show my appreciation. But please just have the courtesy to ask first.

08:19 Sam

We have a few people to talk to today. And the first, well, we've already spoken to Maddie and she had her view on things at the start of the show. So next we're hearing from Lily.

08:32 Lily

Yeah. You know, even when you have got the dog in your left hand, I've been grabbed and dragged onto the train, and I. I used to get really cranky, and I... used to get really cranky, and just say, Let me, you need to let me go. This is what the dog's for and whatever. And I used to yell at them, well, get cranky and get heated. I don't do that anymore. I realise that's not the right thing to do. So if someone does go to grab me, I'll usually just pull my hand away and say, No, it's okay. And just in future, just ask me first, ask me if I need help, and I'll tell you whether I do or not. But in this case, I've got a guide dog in my hand and she's doing the work getting me on the train. 

I don't like being grabbed. It's one of my... absolute worst pet hates. I don't like being grabbed... because you know what it's like when you can't see someone coming at you and then they grab you. It's frightening. And... I've had it happen to me a lot, and, so I'll... you know, I just say to them, I'll... let you know when I need the assistance. I'll let you know. And it was like when I was on the Camino with all these guides, I sighted guides out. And I'd say, If you could let me know if there's going to be a, you know, terrain, you think I'm going to have difficulty rather than just grab me and and just say Lily, there's... something coming up here, do you want an arm? Yep. Absolutely. I'll grab one. You know, so it's really about communication, I think. Yeah.

10:02 Lizzie

Lacey in the background there. Very interesting. So one thing I have to say about this, and it feeds very nicely into a Facebook post that I saw the other day and I can't remember for the life of me where it was found, but it was a comic of different people with disabilities in various situations. So there was a... lady in a wheelchair, and a woman came and put her arm around her. It was a vision impaired person, and someone was touching her shoulder. And then it was like a normal person in a bar, and this creepy dude was hitting on her. 

And the basic premises of the comic was, unwanted physical touch in any situation is not okay. It doesn't matter if you are disabled or if you're a pretty young chick sitting at a bar. If you don't want to be touched and somebody crosses that boundary, no matter the situation, it is not okay. And I agree with Lily. I've had it before where I thought I have been accosted because someone's just come up and grabbed me and yanked me out somewhere and I was like, Oh, kid, this way. And you literally you do think you're being accosted because it just comes from nowhere. You could be in your own little world thinking about your own day's problems, and somebody just comes up and grabs you. It's really scary. 

11:20 Sam

All right. We're going off to a completely different tangent now. I believe we are talking to Stephen, not your Stephen, the other Stephen.

11:29 Stephen

So you thank them and send them on their way. So let's change. As I got older, I think I was a bit more of a rude, arrogant teenager. So. But yeah, when I think... probably the biggest change was when I did my guide dog training, they told me that if someone offers you a seat on the bus or the train, you should should take it because you want them to offer it and you won't. You should. You should thank them. Be positive. Appreciative. Because if they don't do it next time, for the the old person with diabetes and neuropathy in their feet and vision impairment, well that's a problem. So you should take it every time. 

But appreciate it because you judging a book by its cover but you don't necessarily know know the rest of the story. So, yeah, I think... I'll be as nice as I can and just... be appreciative. So I was using my Kansas City, walked into a post the other day and a lady comes up, Oh, I'm so sorry, something like That wasn't your fault. I did that, like. And thank you, but definitely not your fault. You didn't push me into it. So. Yeah, it's that sort of thing like that. That's lovely, but definitely not anything to do with you, so. But yeah, like, just people trying to be nice and... so just, yeah.

12:48 Sam

Be nice and nice back.

12:56 Lizzie

I agree with everything Steven said in that specific situation, and I think the thing to highlight is that it is situationally dependent. What we were talking about before is an extreme situation where you're walking down the street and somebody just grabs you. Now, in my experience, those kind of altercations don't happen very often. Most people will ask you and they will talk to you. And in that situation, I do find it best to be positive. Even if you don't need the help, just say, Oh no, I'm heading here. I'm... if you're coming the same way, why don't we have a chat? I've done that before. Or just, you know, be nice to them and send them on their way. 

So it is situationally dependent. And because I, I was becoming aware, you know, while we were listening to Steve's thing that we I did sound quite angry and... a little bit too, maybe aggressive before. But again I will highlight that it is situationally dependent. And what we were talking about before with Lily being grabbed on the train is an extreme situation.

14:07 Sam

Oh, I've encountered the situation where people have offered their seats on the train in the past, and I've said in the previous show, that's actually why I don't carry a white cane anymore, because sometimes people who need that seat more than I do have stood up and offered their seat.

14:19 Lizzie

Yeah, yeah, I've had that.

14:20 Sam

That's kind of, you know, I'm... a perfectly healthy person. I'm capable of standing. I can understand, okay, a guide dog user... Yes, you're in a slightly different circumstance. And I think really, it's for your dog more than anything else, that you sit down because it leaves them under the seat - so where they're safer. That's the way I gather it.

14:40 Lizzie

Well, I've been on the trams here in Adelaide in peak hour traffic in the morning. And you know when you get on and you walk to the opposite wall or the opposite side of the tram, and I've literally had to stand there and wedge Lacey between me and the pole or me and the wall, because nobody stood up, or it's just so full that getting to a seat is more of a hassle than just standing there for a 5 or 10 minutes, and I've got absolutely no problem with standing. But yeah, you're right, most people will offer it to you, even if they really do need it more than you. And I think that comes from a perception of people with disabilities that we are more frail or less physically capable.

15:20 Sam

Yeah. And as I said, the circumstances at that stage I was only 17 or something like that. So I was not unhealthy in the slightest. And so, yes, as we all grow and we learn about these things. All right. So next up we have Emma.

15:36 Emma

It really depends like if someone just grabbed my arm without telling me I move away from them, and if they're always up close in my space, I have to say, Look, I'm okay. Please, I don't need your help, I can manage. But sometimes, well, a lot of the time when people help, they're... great. I really do appreciate their help, especially when it comes to road crossings, which I hate with a passion. I hate crossing roads if I can help it, but I think this is probably relevant to the question that you asked me as well about overly helpful people. 

When it comes to people that talk at me to the person with me... Oh, does he need this? Is she okay? Does she need help? I have to keep saying, You can talk to me. I'm here. You can speak to me. Okay. How often do you experience that? It's not an everyday thing, really, but often enough to get annoyed, and yet often enough that it gets annoying.

16:48 Sam

Let's go on off topic a little bit, but...

16:51 Lizzie

It's the same thing though.

16:51 Sam

Yeah, I think we should do a whole show about that, about how we don't have, you know, we suddenly don't have our own agency - because since I've been using a disability worker, I've been getting that too.

17:08 Lizzie

I made it a point to my support workers. And I do this now, if ever I travel with a new support worker, my first thing that I'll say before we go out is, Look, people are going to come to you and ask you what I want. Never assume that you know what I want. Direct them to me because, I can speak for myself now. My support worker, Megan, is a fiery little chick and she straight up just tell them, Hey, why don't you ask her? She has a voice. She can speak, and you know, that puts people off. But it works. 

And, you know, my other support workers are starting to come around to that way of thinking as well, because I explained to them, the minute that you start talking for me, even if, yes, you do know what I want, you do know how I take my coffee or whatever you're taking away from my agency. Like, what if I wanted a hot chocolate that day? I mean, what are you going to do? You know, you're taking away from my free will. You're taking away from my ability to speak for myself, my agency, my independence in that situation. And it can be very frustrating. So, you know, most of the time, I think people are getting better at this. But most of the time when it does happen, my support workers or people with me will say, Oh, I don't know what she wants, why don't you ask her?

18:27 Sam

Mm, mm. Interesting sort of thing. And if you've got that experience yourself, dear listener...

18:33 Lizzie

Please do, please touch...

18:34 Sam

Please email us because we'd love to hear about some of those stories. It's just listening to Emma now, that I sort of thought that would make an interesting... episode title. Yeah... Look at Me, Not My Support Worker, Please. Anyway...

18:49 Lizzie

Needs some refining, but we'll get there.

18:51 Sam

Yes. That's right. Who have we got up next, Lizzie?

18:54 Lizzie

I believe we have Carlie.

18:59 Carlie

It's just a matter of. I guess people get, I don't know. It can be awkward for some people. That's how I'd probably explain it. They they, I'll tell them straight up front, I'll let you know, you know, if I need help. But let me try to do this by myself. Just kind of... I'm not afraid to use my voice and just say it because then it stops. It makes them not feel awkward and just, I'm pretty bad with, you know, blind jokes. And soon as I have a laugh, I think the next person lightens up. 

I found, you know, especially in my job I do now. I do mentoring and coaching in a disability job agency. And also I've just completed my diploma in counselling. So, you know, to have have that behind me as well. It's just understanding that every individual at every different stage they're at is going to react different. So it's just about being mindful and being yeah, upfront with... the next person.

20:04 Sam

Well she's very Zen. That's that's all I'm going to say. Very Zen. That's very balanced. And so we've had one extreme to the other, and now we've got something in the middle. I mean, any any comments there, go her...

20:18 Lizzie

I mean, I think to some extent, to some extent, what she said about tailoring your response to the individual is so true. You're going to get those aggro people that if you don't accept their help, it's like a man that tries to buy you drinks in the bar. Like if you say no, they're gonna hate you. Yeah. So what do you do? You're not going to make them feel comfortable at the expense of your own comfortability. So you're going to have to say No and just deal with that. 

But there are some people who are very, like, genuinely open to education or a good chat, like... I was just alluding to before I had someone ask me for help, I was walking down from the Royal Adelaide Hospital back to the railway station. I knew where I was going. I had someone ask me if I needed any help and I said, No, but I'm going this way. And it... Oh yeah, so am I. I said, Oh great. Well, why don't we walk together and I'll, we can have a chat, you know, if you're open to that. If you want to talk, we can talk and... yeah. 

So during the 15 minute walk, we... talked about blindness and what it was like, and assistance and how mobility and all the topics in between that you could possibly cram into 15 minutes while walking with a massive backpack. And... it was a very interesting experience. It's the only experience I've had of that nature. But there are people that are open to having a chat and to learning. So I think that's the important thing to remember when you respond to these people.

21:38 Sam

The white cane and the guide dog can attract all sorts really in some ways. I mean, some people will see either especially a white cane and they will run for the hills, but others seem to see this as some sort of... a lantern. Oh, here's somebody that needs my help, or I've got to do my good deed for the day. Now I'm wondering, have I ever told you the story of the couple that asked us about heaven?

22:01 Lizzie

Do I want to know this? Right. Just... saying.

22:04 Sam

Okay. So me and my friend Roberto were walking down Mitchell Street in Darwin. We were about to head on, first stop of our big nights out, and I was able to see a couple cross the road to come and talk to us, and I was like, Okay. And the first thing that the woman in the couple says is, Has anybody told you about Heaven? And I piped up because I'd just come back from Canberra, that I know all about Heaven. It's a gay club in Canberra. Now we could both see the absolute horrified and confused looks on their faces, because then they looked at the pair of us big strapping lads and he was like, Are they? And of course we just kept walking. So the Kingdom of Heaven was the last thing on our minds at that stage, unless it was in the arms of a pretty girl. Oh.

23:00 Lizzie

Okay. I am a religious, I'm a Christian, I'm a new Christian. However, I have had this experience of... a woman and her three kids, a young... I'm going to say probably Jehovah's Witness, I'm not quite sure... woman. She was quite fanatical in her belief that this would work. Her and her children put their hands over my eyes and prayed for me. Now... I can understand why they did that. But as an atheist at the time, I was not impressed. And even now, with my new found faith, I would have to say I'm sorry, but I don't think that's appropriate.

23:39 Sam

Well, at least ask first.

23:41 Lizzie

I mean, I am not blind because of my sinful nature, I can tell you that now. I certainly wasn't sinning in my mother's womb, and I certainly wasn't sinning when I was born. So my blindness has nothing to do with that. So I think it is highly inappropriate to... for that discussion to be had.

24:00 Sam

Anyway... we're next talking to Jodie. Jodie took a little while to warm to this subject when you talked to her about it. Mm.

24:10 Jodie

But now that I've actually come across any overly helpful people I can... the more blind you look or appear, the more you get them.

24:19 Lizzie

So I guess your husband would get them more than you would.

24:22 Jodie

Yeah I think that, I think he seems to attract when he goes out to the... shops, our local shops, on his own, he seems to attract a lot of the old grannies because they keep saying how nice the dog is and stuff. But I haven't really... no, I haven't really come across that, to be honest. Because I find, like with my personal experience, I've got a seeing eye dog also, and when we're out and about, I don't even have to be looking for assistance and someone will automatically come up and Oh, do you need some help crossing the road or getting to this or that place? Or where are you going? I can get you there.

And I'm just, I don't need that help, but thank you. You know, I know a lot of blind and visually impaired people who have a cane or a dog get a lot of that sort of overly helpful assistance from people. Yeah, I guess it depends on your personality and the type of person you are. Whereas my hubby would probably just stop and start chatting to them and, you know, he'd be late for whatever it was he was trying to get to. But it depends on the thing. Yeah, yeah... it's it's just, you know, I don't know. I think the more people ask, I think it's good because, you know, you never know the day when it might come that you actually do need help. 

And if it... like, just for example, for our bus drivers around here, I live in a... small sort of, I... it's not rural, but I live in a small place. And if I was to not know exactly where I was going, I'd tell the bus driver and he would radio ahead and tell the next bus driver on the next route that, you know, I'm coming, or can you look out for me? Or if I'm, I know I'm returning at a certain time, I'll say, Oh, can you radio the next driver and just let him know I'll be, you know, looking for the bus? Or something like that. So I just, yeah, I guess I've been lucky. It would be completely different in big cities where you don't see the same drivers, you know, two days in a row sort of thing.

26:19 Sam

Bus drivers are an interesting one. Sometimes they can be extremely, extremely helpful. other times, I've had some really shocking experiences with them.

26:29 Lizzie

Oh, you are not the only one.

26:32 Sam

If I mean, us talking, for example, with Santi last year, who is developing the Hello app, and he had something very valid to say, and that is, they're doing 100 other things anyway, so you can't rely on them remembering your stop. So that's the way I kind of consider it nowadays when if we've got all these wonderful technology, then don't burden them with your stop, you know, work it out yourself. But I've had in the past flagged down buses and have not been able to see the numbers on the front. And so showing my blind pass to them and said, Is this such and such a number? And they've said, Well, what does it say on the front? And I'm going, well, I don't know. This is a blind pass.

27:15 Lizzie

I've never had that because I look blind. People are generally a bit more nicer to me about that.

27:22 Sam

So but yes, even just, you know, waving this thing quite close to their thing. But obviously, again, they've got a million things on their mind, so I'm not going to complain about it. And so yes, in a rural area potentially, yes. And sometimes, you know, in Darwin it was actually pretty good as well, I've got to say. So there was only a few bus routes, and it did seem to work out nine out of ten times. It was just the odd occasional time where they were off in their own little world and they forgot this stop that... yes, it wouldn't work out.

27:51 Lizzie

I've had the experience, completely different. I've gotten on the bus and a driver has patted my dog on the way in. Oh, and I was with my friend Lisa, who was quite vocal, and she was like, That's not allowed. The sign says, Do not pat, you're not exempt from this rule. And he was like, too late. Anyway, she reported him to Adelaide Metro. But I've had bus drivers do that. I've never had a really rude... like I've had bus drivers that have been grumpy and testy. And you can tell they want to snark at you.

28:23 Sam

Yeah, but...

28:24 Lizzie

They've got no reason to because I'm always like, Hey, how are you doing? Thanks, driver. I always try to be positive because I never want to give those grumpy people a reason to snark at me.

28:34 Sam

The best thing that I have in my possession now is a Metro card when it comes to taking buses. Because... there are so many times where I've walked past, the bus driver flashed my pass and they haven't looked at it, and they call you out as you're halfway across the bus trying to sit down somewhere, Hey, you haven't done your Metro pass. That doesn't happen anymore because pretty much in every capital city in Australia now we've all got Metro passes.

29:01 Lizzie

Yeah, even the blind pass is a Metro card. That's right. And it says on the back in Braille, Metro card. So yeah, I buzzed mine and my Metro card when I get in. Actually, not all the time. I'm hopefully no inspectors catch me out, but I always have it with me ready to go. So if I need to, I'll buzz it on the thing. But yeah, I think the invention of having it all in one makes things a lot easier. 

29:23 Sam

Oh, it is, a lot easier. And being able to walk through train gantries and stuff like that. It's only when you're interstate and you have to actually physically show your past to somebody again, that you realize how inconvenient it was before. But again, it's something where you do actually have to engage the bus driver when when you go on the bus and say, Hey, this is an interstate blind pass. We're, in theory, allowed to travel free, and usually they're pretty good with that. Anyway, I haven't had any rejections from that at all. Here's Sam Colley.

29:56 Sam C

A few years ago, somebody who they'd just met me, and one of the first things they did was when they were showing me this new little, new little house they'd built out the back of their backyard. They grabbed me by the arm and dragged me around to show me all this stuff because, well, their their motivation wasn't that great either. They were like, they basically said, Oh, I want you to know where this is. So you don't run into it and break it and all that sort of thing. And it did not make a great impression on me as a first impression. So that's not been, that wasn't a great experience.

30:41 Sam

Being rushed around and dragged around. I've had friends who someone's grabbed the end of their cane and wheeled them around that way. Has that happened to you before?

30:54 Lizzie

Not for a long time. Because, like, I spent a majority of the last ten years with Lily, and... yeah, I mean, but, yes, that did happen. I even had someone suggest that I use my cane as, like, a guide rope thing so that they could guide me around. And I'm like, Well, how am I gonna know where there are lips in the ground and steps? And they couldn't seem to see beyond that. So that was quite humorous. But yeah, I mean, this is just strange. People are strange.

31:24 Sam

Again, it's assumption. It's just, I'm going to assume...

31:29 Lizzie

that I know what's best.

31:30 Sam

All right - so we are finishing up with Lars, who we spoke to a couple of weeks ago... who is... what was his role again with the European?

31:41 Lizzie

He is the Executive Director of the European Blind Union.

31:46 Sam

And, well, Lizzy dropped this in as one of the last questions, and I sort of went, You know what? I'm keeping this one for another week. And this, dear listener, is why.

32:00 Lars

Well, first of all, I always try to be myself and sort of in an educational and explaining to people... attitude. It's very... rare that I would lose patience or get, I don't know, angry or whatever in a more aggressive way - because I always think at the end of the day, people have good intentions in most of them. Maybe exceptions, but most people have good intentions and often don't know, just don't know how to express them actually. And then sort of, are maybe lost and therefore use the wrong word or use the wrong gesture or sort of over want to overhelp. 

And so... it's very, I try to really stay always calm and explain to people where I need help or sometimes also that I don't want to accept their help now because, I mean, there's no point for me accepting help if I'm 20m away from my... own doorstep. I mean, this is just, you know, these things, but it requires explanation - and again and again, and this is sometimes tough. And I'm probably, I probably, I'm sure you know, this. Also, sometimes you're not always in the same mood, of course, either. I mean, you know, there are moments where I want to talk about... me being blind and what I need, what I don't need and when. 

But there are also moments where, I mean, after a hard day at work or, you know, where you just want to sort of just walk your way and you're not into the chatty mode of about your disability all the time either. So that is kind of educational mode is sometimes also not there. And so sometimes, tough than to say, Well, can you please basically let me in peace is the answer. But for sure you don't you don't say that too often.

33:54 Sam

Well, that is a wrap for this week. A big thank you to Maddie, Lily, Stephen, Emma, Carlie... that's right. Carlie... Jodie, Sam, Carly. And of course, the mighty Lars. And of course, thank you as well for listening. You can find the podcast of this program including some extra content on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favorite podcast platform.

34:18 Lizzie

On next week's show, it's International Women's Day. To celebrate this auspicious occasion, I'll be kicking Sam out of the studio so that we can celebrate in style. 

34:29 Sam

I'll go now. I'll just have a beer. Bye.

34:31 Lizzie

But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this week's episode of Studio 1, or whether you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar. You can reach us via email at studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org. Or you can find us on social media, whether that be Facebook or Instagram. At VA Radio Network we want to hear from you. Till next week, bye bye.

35:04 ID

Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.