Jury Duty

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This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.

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Hello, I'm Sam.

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And I'm Lizzie.

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And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio.

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On this week's show....

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Last year, I was called up for jury duty. The experience wasn't what I was expecting. We ask, what relationship do people like us have with the judiciary, and is there something to be concerned about?

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As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience with any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One, or whether you think that there's something we should be talking about.

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You never know. Your story and insight might help somebody else who is dealing with something similar. Please contact us by email. Studio 1 at Vision Australia - dot - org. That's studio1@visionaustralia.org

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Or perhaps drop us a note on our Facebook page, that's facebook.com slash VA Radio Network - dot - org.

01:02S2

We want to hear from you. As I was saying at the introduction, there was one month last year, which well, it was a fascinating month in its own right. But also, I don't know, it seems to sort of be a bit of a waste of time as well.

01:20S3

Yes, it was a rather hectic month. I remember the chaos that ensued, but it is a fascinating topic. Jury duty. I've never been called myself.

01:29S2

That was the funny thing, is that in my circle of friends and relatives and that sort of stuff, the only person I knew that had actually been had, well, had actually served in a jury was my grandmother. And that was back in the 1980s. So I'd never heard of anybody else being called up. And of course, then I get this letter, and then all of a sudden I'm hearing from a whole lot of other people who had, uh, been called up. So, Megan who drives me about every Thursday, her daughter was called up around about the same time. And, of course, yes, our friend Carolyn was called up for the following month, so, and I believe there are actually a couple of volunteers here at the VA radio, in Adelaide here that also were called up. So it went from zero to a whole bunch of people.

02:20S3

So what's actually the process of selecting people for jury duty. How do they go about doing that?

02:25S2

I think they actually pull your name out of the electoral roll basically. And if you are an Australian citizen or a resident and, you basically qualify there and I, there are a whole lot of, uh, reasons you can be excused. For example, if you have any connection to say that the legal. Yeah. If you're, in a legal profession for example. So if you are a lawyer... and we actually had a lawyer that turned up and said, well, by the way, I'm a lawyer. And they said, well, okay, go home. Yeah. Wow. And also, yes, if there was illness and you had an inability to show up to certain things and things like that, and, in theory I probably could have been excused, but I was just absolutely fascinated by the whole process and was quite keen to serve on a jury.

03:08S3

And I think you also get this, uh, excused if you've got some sort of connection to anyone in the case. Isn't that right?

03:14S2

That's right. And this was one of the funny things that happened is that, uh, so the first case I'd sort of set for the selection there. Yeah. They said, all right, is it anybody that thinks they have a connection to this and they're about 4 or 5 people stood up.

03:28S3

Wow. That's amazing. Well, I mean.

03:31S2

I think Adelaide's so small that it's an inevitability. And yes, three of those people were excused because of that connection, whereas the other two no, they set back down again.

03:38S3

I think I also heard that if you have a certain bias towards like guilty or not guilty or something like that, you can you can't sit on the jury.

03:47S2

It comes down to if you're any connection to the case or if yes, if you have previous  involvement in something similar, I think that really would disqualify the whole point of being a juror is that you are not, you know, you're completely new to this. You know, you have not formed any actual previous opinions. Yeah.

04:09S3

You have to have an unbiased view of the case and the evidence that's provided. So when you got selected for jury duty, then did you have to go through any more sort of rigorous questioning, or were you just that was it you were given a case.

04:23S2

And so what happened was, um, yes. Initially, um, there was like an induction. So you show up, you swear an oath, so everyone stands up and they repeat the oath and that that sort of gets recorded there. Um, you're given a number and there's quite a long sort of briefing as to what's expected of you and all that sort of stuff. And then basically the what for the next month or so, you get an SMS at 4:00 in the afternoon, and that says whether you're required there or not. And because they were all divided into different groups.

04:55S3

Okay.

04:56S2

So I was group number six and yeah, I had 4:00 every evening is an SMS whether I was required or not. And what was interesting, though, is it was only just as I was starting to take on extra responsibilities. And I think anybody else who was doing this, if it was just a job that someone did the same thing every day, I don't think it would be an issue. But the fact that in our line of work, we're doing something very, very differently. And at that stage, if I had to drop everything, you weren't in the position really to sort of take things up?

05:32S3

Not I think I think I remember, too. That was just as I came on board as the official, like the co-host. And yeah, I do remember everything was so hectic and I don't I don't know when I'm gonna be called in. I'm not sure if it's going to be then if it is, then you're gonna have to, you know, do this interview or whatever. And I just remember just thinking, I'm so glad it's not me to do that.

05:56S2

And I mean, as it was, I didn't serve on any juries either, because, I mean, the it's it's only been fairly recently that we've been allowed to serve because. It's always been a question is if you can't see what's going on, are you going to be any use? And of course, I made sure that I presented myself to the jury manager and said, hey, this is you know, I've got a vision impairment. Um, uh, um, and I showed him my monocular and said, if you know, this is what I'd be using if I need to see anything. And, and so he said, thank you and any would have a word with the judge each time our group came up for selection.

06:35S3

Okay. So you didn't actually have to serve on any cases or anything?

06:39S2

Well, no. And as it was that first time round, because it was like a trial to see, they pulled my number out of the lot because that's what they do. They, they just pull random numbers out and you, you get up there and and anyway, so they pulled my number out. They said, but said, you know, come and have a look and see if things were okay and what the that particular case was highly involved with like CCTV footage and things like that. So it was a case of you needed to be able to see the accused, you needed to be able to, um, see things on a screen and pictures and things like that. And of course, the funny thing is that, I mean, if you're going to university or school or whatever, the way you can judge whether you can see something or not is they'll hand you something beforehand. And the course the court procedure doesn't allow you to do that.

07:31S3

No, no, of course not.

07:32S2

So it really wouldn't have been so. And because, yeah, you're not allowed to see the evidence before it's presented. So so yeah that was the problem there. And so no, I mean and yeah, I could, I could actually see who the guy was and well who the who the person was I should say. And I thought I'd be okay. But, yeah, we were called up two other times, and both times the, um, jury manager called me up separately and said, sorry, but, no, I've talked to the judge, and they don't think it's appropriate that you'd be on this case.

08:00S3

Yeah, well, I suppose there are cases where there are less visual forms of evidence, like, I know the audio evidence is admissible in court, so I guess you could sit on a case that that has plenty of audio evidence or perhaps documents or pictures. I suppose you could do that. But I mean, it's very interesting that you didn't have to serve based on the severity of your vision impairment.

08:23S2

Yeah. And I think that's, is part I mean, if there had been a fraud case, for example, that popped up, that would have been a lot of, um, you know, documentary evidence and stuff like that. And, I mean, there are other similar things that if they rely a lot on forensic evidence, for example. So it's just things being written down that would not have been such a problem. And no, um, as you know, we'll be we were talking to Carolyn later on, and yes, she did actually serve on a jury. And the nature of the actual case was a lot of forensic evidence. So she was there was no problems with her serving there.

08:55S3

That's amazing. Yeah, I would love to. I think I would actually love to sit on a jury if there was a case that was suitable for me to be able to sit, I would find it very fascinating just going through all the evidence and listening to the way that public trial, the way that court trials, uh, pan out because, uh, I was actually going to do criminology after school. So I did legal studies a lot during high school, and I actually did study criminology for a while at university, and we did go to the courts a lot and sat on a lot of cases just, you know, as, as general audience. And I found it absolutely fascinating, for sure, like a lot of my classmates were falling asleep. But I thoroughly enjoyed the process. And, you know, finding out what all the legal terminology meant. Not that I can remember any of it now, but yeah, definitely. It was very interesting and I'd love the opportunity to serve if I ever got one.

09:46S2

So before we do proceed any further, I will also say that I did ask permission from the, uh, jury manager at the time for us to cover this topic and did declare myself also as a member of the media. It's always very funny of saying that. So, we did actually check and then one of the things that we can't really cover specifics about the case, of course.

10:10S3

Yes, I can understand that.

10:11S2

And anything that this is seen as, but it's just the procedures and the whole, I don't know, the what it takes to be involved and the fact that we are now involved. That is fascinating. So last week when I was talking to Graeme Innes, I thought I'd ask him a few questions about the history of blind people and jury duty. And, well, are there any parts of Australia where we still aren't allowed to serve?

10:43S5

You're not up to date in which states allow it and which states don't. But this this arises from the negative and limiting assumptions that are made about people with disabilities by most members of the community, and so many people in the community assume that we won't be able to perform our community responsibility of serving on juries, and that's just not the case. There are people with various different disabilities, blindness, deafness, etc., etc. who can perform this this role very effectively. And and that's been demonstrated over the years. So there are some states which still have this very archaic legislation in place. 

But when you think about the fact that people such as Professor Ron McCallum, myself and many other blind people have worked effectively as lawyers and in the legal community, it's just a nonsense to suggest that blind people can't assess evidence in the same way as anyone else. We might need some assistance in the description of a of a video or a photographs, in the same way as someone who has a hearing impairment might need some assistance in interpreting via Auslan or other means captions. You know what's been said in the courthouse, but these are areas of assistance that are regularly provided to people with these disabilities in all sorts of other activities in our daily lives. So jury service should just not be any different.

12:20S2

So, I mean, it was it was for a month and every day at 4:00 every afternoon, I get an SMS saying whether I was required or not. And as it turned out, I was up for three trials and none of which. So the first one, they pulled my name out of the hat, as it were, because they wanted to assess whether I could actually do this and because why not come clean and said that? All right. I have a visual impairment to see things properly. I use a monocular, a small telescope, and I showed the manager of the, of the jury exactly what it was. And so the judge of that case made the decision. All right. Well, put his name out, see how he goes. And so, yes, I sat in the court and, uh, and looked at the defendant and could see, tell the difference and said, yes, in theory I can do that. The other two cases I got notified. Okay. Please come in. And then a call from the jury manager saying, yes, I've had a chat with the judge and, no, your services will not be required. So, frankly, I found it to be just a bit of a waste of time. Really.

13:22S5

It's not a waste of time. All of us have a community duty to serve as members of a jury of our peers in in criminal law, just as it's our responsibility to vote every 2 or 3 years, it's our responsibility to serve on juries. And really, the judge who decided you wouldn't be required was demonstrating that negative and limiting attitude towards people with disabilities that I've spoken about. And that's the attitude that we need to change, not only in the area of jury service, but across the board.

13:55S2

Does that affect our ability to act as witnesses as well? I mean, this is something that sort of, um, I suppose, disturbed me more is that if I can't make a decision on someone's guilt or innocence on a jury, does that mean that any testimony that I give if if something happens is not going to be taken as seriously? Well, no one.

14:12S5

Can give testimony, uh, as a witness to something they've seen if they haven't seen it, and whether it's because you're blind or vision impaired, or whether it's because you were looking in the opposite direction makes no difference. You can only give testimony as to something that you've seen or heard, or that you're aware of when you're a witness. So the rules are exactly the same, whether you can, whether you're, um, a sighted person or a person who's blind or has leverage.

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This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.

14:48S2

What was the thought that went through your head when you got that amazing letter?

14:53S6

I actually was really excited about it. I know that sounds maybe a bit strange, but the whole judicial system and that kind of thing, I love all the crime shows really fascinates me. And um, I originally thought, yeah, this is going to be interesting. And then next minute I thought, oh, I'm vision impaired. I wonder whether they will accept me into the, you know, into jury duty. Yeah, that was my first thoughts.

15:21S2

I guess South Australia does include blind and vision impaired also, hearing impaired people on their juries. Now that is, is is allowed. But bizarrely enough, apparently New South Wales doesn't yet and uh, so and Victoria is in the process of changing the law so.

15:40S6

Oh well there you go. I didn't even know that. So that's interesting in itself. 

15:44S2

So it's been the last 20 or so years that that has been the case. And, we've talked to Graeme Innes recently about that as well. And his opinion of that really is, is just a hold up from what other people think we can and can't do. And, when in doubt, just go with what we can't do.

16:01S6

Yeah, well, I guess it really comes down to what kind of case you're working on, how vision impaired you are, what sort of visual evidence series? I'm a B3, which I have 660 vision, so I do have usable sight and I am able to use visual aids to see. So, um, still not great, but enough to get by in these situations. And so for me, I thought, I think I could do this, but I was just very transparent when I got got to the court and went from there.

16:36S2

Really, that is the beauty of it, really. I mean, they take you through the initial spiel and even before you're sworn in, they say, all right, is there anybody that has a, you know, thinks that they might have an issue here? And that's when we all get up and say, all right, hey, um, you know, this is this is the problem. And so I take it you did that as well and, uh, yes. And did did they seem to have a problem with it? And did they I mean, what did they say when you sort of came out about it?

17:01S6

Well, the funny thing was that that morning I bumped into your wife Heidi, on the tram, and we walked to work together because she works across the road from me. And I said, oh, would you believe I'm off to jury duty at 2:00? And she said, oh, Sam's on jury duty at the moment. And, um, and then I sort of grilled her for the next five minute walk. Oh, you know, has Sam gone up yet? And said, no, she didn't really say a lot, but unless you're in it, you don't really understand how it works. And she said that you'd been called in a few times but then didn't get on a case. Yeah. And then we sort of parted ways and off I went.

So when I got up to say, look, I'm legally blind and I got Matt, I can't think what his name was, but he was the head of, like, the court manager. And he said, oh my goodness, I can't believe it. He goes, we've actually just finished there's a there's a vision impaired person on the previous jury. How uncanny. Mm. And he said Look I hope I don't... the poor guy. You know he wanted to go on different cases and it just didn't happen. And he said let's hope you know because it comes down to the judge too at the end which I found out like the judge can go No sorry, it's not going to... they can say no before you even go through.

18:20S2

And that's pretty much what happened to me. I mean, uh, the very first time my number was taken out of the hat as it was, so. But I was told to sort of keep an eye on things and see if I could handle it. I thought I could handle it, really. I mean, I had enough eyesight to actually see who the, um, the person was in the dock and, uh, be able to tell. But, um, other people had other ideas, unfortunately.

18:40S6

Yeah. So did you get challenged or did you get to like, did you was the A number come did your number come out in the courtroom or.

18:48S2

No. No, that was that was the thing I never had that he even had that opportunity. So that very first time was the very first time I sort of had the chance. And then my number had been taken out so of the list altogether. So I wasn't called up at all. And, uh, yeah, yeah. But yeah, the other times, really, you got an SMS saying come in and then yes, Matt would give me a call shortly after saying, sorry, I've had a word with the judge and, uh, no.

19:13S6

So yeah, that's interesting.

19:14S2

But, uh, your experience was different, but we'll...

19:17S6

Yes.

19:18S2

We'll come to that because one other thing I, that I found, interesting is when you rock up and one of the first things I'd sort of seen, well, one of the big things, because I'd read the letter from start to finish. Yeah.

19:30S6

Me too.

19:31S2

They said at the finish, right at the phone. Bring the letter with you. Which, of course I did. Um, but what was funny is there were three people in front of me as, uh, lining up to sort of go in and showing up, you know, to and be registered.

19:45S6

Yep, yep.

19:45S2

So the very first person was. In their 30s and they didn't bring their letter, so everything was manually entered.

19:53S6

Yes, I had my letter, but actually I had already done it online because you could do it all on. Did you do all that?

19:59S2

Oh, definitely. Definitely. So yeah, all my all my details in here. So as I said, so there was one person who...

20:05S6

Had the letter...

20:05S2

Two it was one person. It was younger and they hadn't one, they hadn't registered online and two, they didn't have the letter with them. So it took an extra long time. The second person turned out to be a solicitor and said, hey, I don't know why I'm here. I'm a solicitor. And they said, oh, so you are. Bye bye. The third person was in their 60s and the same thing. They had not registered online. They did not have the letter with them. So yeah, we uh, this interesting age group where one we're handed a letter, we read it. And two, we actually do follow the instructions because I think.

20:42S6

Through that's our generation, I think and I think two and I don't know if this is the same for you, but being vision impaired I am a little bit, pardon the expression anal on procedure and following step by step. Like I just I guess because we can't skim read things that's the first thing. So I have to read every word to make it make sense. And my husband's a beauty. He he's a bit of a skim reader, and then he misses the whole context of what I'm saying in a text message. And I'm like, read all the words. So yeah, yeah, I had same situation. No letters, no this or that. Not as well set up and everything was there.

21:23S7

Yeah, yeah.

21:24S2

There's a, the code on there. So they went, oh yes, you're all done. Go inside. So. Yes. So yes. Anyway, so as I said, we presented myself there. I actually had my monocular with me as well. And I said, all right, I'm this is if I'm going to be using anything it would be this. So because I thought, I don't want to be showing up to a case and then lawyers and judge going, oh, what's that guy using? Is he filming this sort of stuff that didn't seem to have a problem with it. But again, it, things played out differently there, but so how many times we called up? Once, one.

21:56S6

So I was I was the end of November to the end of December. And at that time of year we were told, look, it's pretty quiet in the court, so you probably may or may not get on a case like they're winding down for the year. So I think it was the second week before we'd even been like our, our group had even come up and I thought, well, section can't remember what I was now. I think I was section four. I just thought, oh God, this is never going to happen. And then it did, and it was the Thursday afternoon at two. We got called up. And they're very strict in the court like 430. Boom. See you later. Yep. And of course, you don't know what's going to happen. Whether you're going to get called up, whether it's going to happen. And off I went. 

And then I went and that's when they explain, you know, this is the case. If you've got any problems with this type of case, you need to come forward now. So then there was a few that dropped out then. Then it was a different person. It wasn't Matt. It was a lady doing this part. And so when when she sort of said what was going to happen because we you get to that point and then you all go into the court and you sit in the public gallery. Yes. And then wait for them to pull numbers out of a hat. Pretty much. So before we did that, I just went up to her to remind, just to make sure they did have on the sheet about me being vision impaired. And she had met me with Matt on that first occasion and she said, um, oh. She goes, oh yes, I remember you now. She goes, no, he hasn't written it down, but I will. And she goes, look, I'll check with the judge. I thought, oh, here we go. And it was a new judge that we had. And I too had my monocular, the whole thing. And I said, look, this is what I need to use, um, you know, to see facial expressions and stuff. 

So as long as they're okay with that, that's, you know, I should be fine. So that was fine. And then. Yeah, I got to go through the judge was fine with it. So it's just really, I guess who's in charge on the day.

23:55S2

So your number was actually called up and they...

23:58S6

Yeah, I was about. Yeah. So there's 12 jurors and I was number eight and a couple, a couple dropped out when we got in there. Because when you get in there they then read you the charges and every single person that's involved in the case full name, where they work, all sorts of stuff. So and if you know any of them, you then have to go and talk to the judge and let them know. Look, I know so-and-so and, you know, is this going to be a problem or I work at the same place or, you know, and then the judge will make a call as to whether you stay or go. And that's even before they start pulling names out. Yes.

24:33S2

So that's what happened with the, the case that, that I was at, as it were, the nature of the case essentially it was we had people that are sort of had actually new people involved. I think one person actually. Lived in the area. And so yeah, there were five people stood up and three people were excused.

24:53S6

Yes. Well, that we lost another couple actually in the court there and then. So we were down to about, I reckon about maybe 21 jurors and you start with 30. So that's, you know, they like it to be you know, because then they've got three challenges as well.

25:14S8

Yes. Yes.

25:15S6

So and that's, that's a really interesting thing too, because there's no rhyme or reason as to why they challenge you. And you can't help but wonder. And, you know, you get up out of your seat halfway through to the jury seat challenge. Off you go. So I sat there and sat there and funnily enough, my jury number is my favourite number. So I thought, I reckon I'm gonna get called up. I just had a feeling. So there were two sixes in my number and six is my favourite. So yeah. And then about number eight I got called and I stood up and I and they were really fabulous with me too. I went into the just I've got to mention I, the sheriff's office officer, took me into the courtroom first and showed me where I was going to have to walk because there was a few steps up and down. Okay? Because she said, are you going to have any problems in the courtroom? 

And I just said, well, look, I'm just a bit, you know, I don't have depth perceptions of steps and things can be a little bit of a problem. I don't really want to stack it on the way to the jury seat. So, they took me into the court first, and she just showed me where I was going to have to walk. And would that be all right? I said, yeah, no, that's absolutely fine, because I'm... once I've done something and seen it, then I'm okay. Yes. And yeah. And so I thought that was fabulous. And yeah, then I got called up and there, there, that was that.

26:35S2

The nature of your case was somewhat different to the one that I suspect, the ones that I would have been involved with, because there was not a lot of necessarily visual evidence.

26:43S6

I'm guessing there was actually there was, we had photographs. We had a video. We had. Yeah, quite a lot. We had a lot of conversations that were screenshotted and all of that was in written paperwork. Right. But I have to say, the other people on my jury were amazing. So when we all got called up, and then you go in and then you all sit there and then we you have. It's a bit like being in church sometimes because you're up and down like yo-yos, because every time they need to discuss something, they don't want the jury to hear, out we go. And then we all sat in that, our little room going, I wonder what that's about. But yes. And when we when we went into our little room before we finished for the day, we all sort of said, we're all from... and I let them all know about my vision. Well, the the support I got from the rest of the jury was fantastic. So, you know, if they had to we had to point at anything on our paperwork. They they were excellent and just helping me out with that sort of stuff as well.

27:48S2

As it turns out. Yeah. So you're right. Yeah. It sounds like it depends on the judge that you get. Yeah. If they allow you through and, uh, yes, uh, what our friend Graham said might be a little bit true. There is a bit of a concern there, really. I mean, if a judge thinks that we're not capable of serving properly on a jury, what else would I think if we're before a court? I mean, I take it you've never had any involvement in the court system before. Carolyn.

28:12S6

I know I haven't been on the other end. No. Definitely not. I found it really just really interesting. I don't think I'd ever want to be a lawyer. It sounds very boring. You know, the way they the way they write their paperwork is just all my. Yeah, it's, look, it's full on. I was exhausted, I have to say, because you really listening all the time.

The judge we had, she was amazing. She was a really the way she spoke when she was giving her deliberation at the end, it went for, like two hours. We had to have a break in the middle. But she had one of these voices that would have been fabulous on a meditation video because she almost put you to sleep. But I'm not meaning in a boring way. But she just had one of these voices that was just. We all felt the same, so we were glad when she called. We'll have a, we'll have a 15 minute break. And we were all like, oh, she just had you all mesmerised with what she was saying.

29:14S2

So the case did go all the way through to the end then. So because I mean, often what you'll find is that a defendant will in the end plead guilty because they'll get a lesser sentence. Yours actually went through to actually handing down a verdict?

29:27S6

Yes. Yes. Because they, he, the person pled not guilty.

29:31S8

Okay.

29:32S2

And was there much debate in the jury room about that in the end? I mean, was there...

29:39S6

Yes, there was, it was a really difficult one because it was almost a bit like a he said, she said or he said, he said or she. They said. She said it all came down to credibility, right? Reliability. That's how we had to base it in the end, because we had evidence on all like it was just all very conflicting. So it was actually difficult. We we took 4.5 hours to come to our decision.

30:06S8

Wow. Okay.

30:07S2

Was it a unanimous decision?

30:08S6

I'm just trying to think whether it was ten out of 12 of us or 11 out of 12. There was one in our jury group that really didn't believe the accused at all, but said, I've absolutely got no way of... he goes, because you can't go on gut feeling. You can't go, ah, but I have a feeling, yeah.

30:27S8

Yeah, yeah.

30:28S6

So-and-so is telling a lie. You can't. It's all got to be factual. And that's actually really difficult when you are put in that situation because we in our lives, we all are. But I have a feeling they're not going, you know, that's how we...

30:42S8

Yes.

30:43S6

That's how we operate, isn't it? So to bring yourself out of that and totally just look at the evidence. It was actually quite hard but very interesting experience. And, you know, we had people on our jury from 19 to about 68, 70.

31:02S8

A good range of age groups. Good.

31:03S6

Yep. A range of age groups, a range of occupations. And, you know, I was finding myself sitting in the jury room going, I don't know what they think. Do they think they're guilty? You know, and the ones I thought one way I was wrong as well, you know.

31:20S2

So if anyone else out there suddenly gets this letter, would you have anything to say to them?

31:25S6

I would say if you really keen to do it, absolutely. Get in there, give it a go and see how you go, because I think I think you had just a bad luck with the judge on the week or the months. Um, Sam, because, um, yeah, I mean, I like I said, the first case and I, and I got called out, so yeah, I definitely don't if you if you're keen to give it a go and you feel that you can handle it, especially if you've got some vision, you know, and you do use a monocular or magnifying glasses or whatever, because I did need my monocular because you're not close to people, you're only close to the jury. And I needed it to see facial expressions because it's very important in these things when people are talking and, you know, that can show a lot of things.

32:15S7

With your work.

32:16S2

Did that affect that much? Um, because that was the problem that I had. I'd only just sort of taken on a new role, and there really wasn't anybody else to take over what I was doing at the time. Uh, I mean, the process of training somebody up, hopefully she will be able to do it, do what I do in time. But, uh, if something doesn't get done with what I do, it just never gets done. How did you go?

32:35S6

Yeah. So with my work, I mean, where I work, we have amazing leave and we actually have jury leave. I work for a credit union, so I'm not in the government because I think government employees get it automatically. But we actually get ten days a year paid jury leave, so no problem at all. I just sent a message and said, look, I'm going to court tomorrow. I won't be back till possibly Wednesday and no problem. And you know, because you get paid from the courts, you get $20 a day, I think $20 something a day, plus your travel allowance, which is a certain amount of money per kilometre from where you live. But I got my pay from my job as well. So yeah, I was I'm one of the lucky ones. But you know, there was a few that like were casual. So I'm not sure how you can claim your wage through the court and they will pay you.

33:28S2

Did you find the subject matter of the case itself, though, to be confronting?

33:32S6

No, no, not really. I mean, I know this stuff goes on, so, you know, not really. I wasn't shocked. It was just I suppose it was more that this is real and this is in your face. That was probably the main thing.

33:45S2

Would you look at a legal drama the same way again?

33:47S6

I'm glad they don't, you know, draw them out the court cases because, God, sometimes they can be a little on the boring side.

33:54S9

Talent.

33:55S2

Thank you very much for for sharing your experiences. It's been, well, different. As I said, I mine was a case of showing up and then going away again. Yours well, was what I was expecting. So thank you for letting me live vicariously through you.

34:11S6

No worries. Well, you never know. You. Apparently you can get called up again, so perhaps they'll pull your name out of the hat again one day soon.

34:18S2

Lizzy, if you're listening, be very, very careful.

34:24S3

I'll keep that in mind, Sam.

34:27S2

So, yes, you might be called up as well. So how would that go if you had to serve a week on a jury or a month with the dreaded SMS? How would you cope?

34:37S3

I think I would, uh, lose my marbles a little bit because, sir, I thrive on routine and structure, and not having that there would just send me bonkers.

34:46S2

So that is a wrap for this week. A big thank you to Graham Ennis and to Carolyn, who provided us a wonderful insight into the way a court system would actually work. Next week I'm taking a step back.

35:02S3

No, you're not taking a step back, Sam. I'm kicking you out the studio because it's International Women's Day, and I'm going to be joined by a special co-host, Heidi, and we're going to be celebrating some amazing women with some inspiring.

35:14S2

Stories between now and then. Please do get in touch with the show, whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One, or if you think there is something we should be talking about, but you never know, your story and insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar. How do we get in touch?

35:30S3

You can email us at studio one at Vision Australia - dot - org.  That's studio1@visionaustralia.org ... or you can drop us a note on the Facebook page at facebook.com, RVA Radio Network.

35:42S2

And I would recommend having a look at that, because every Wednesday we post links to our latest podcast, and if you are listening on a Wednesday afternoon or a Wednesday night, you'll find that there is more material on our podcast than on the on air version, because sometimes we don't have enough time to fit it in. But until then, bye for now.

36:02S10

See you later.

36:04S1

Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.