Debbie and SED Zazu take Canada

00:48

S1 (Speaker 1)

On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dog Show - with me, your host, Eric Moffett. Today I'm joined by one of our senior dogs handlers who has an extraordinary adventure to tell us about. Debbie King with seeing eye dog Zazu has come back on the show to talk about their six months living in Canada, taking in all the skiing and the snow that the Northern hemisphere has to offer. 

We're also going to talk about their partnership and how it's evolved over the last two years. I hope you enjoy hearing about this snowy Canadian adventure of Debbie and Zazu. Thank you for listening to the Seeing Eye Dog Show. We thank you for joining me on the show today.

S2

Hi, Harriet.

S3

When we first spoke, you had Zazu, who had only been together for four months. How long have you been together now?

S2

Well, it must be two years now, I must admit. Close to two years. More than two years. So I'm thinking.

S3

Time really flies. She's almost four now. Is she?

S2

She is. She'll be four on the 29th of August. Yes. Time does fly. It certainly does. We've we've had a lot happening. And yes, I can't believe it's gone so quickly.

S3

Could you please introduce both you and her?

S2

Okay. I'm Debbie. And I'm, this is my first dog. I'm learning the life of being a handler. I explained to people when they say, What's it like? I say it's a bit like bringing home baby and learning to drive a car. Or at the same time. I'm retired and Zazu was chosen to be with me because clearly she has a sense of adventure. And we had all of these exciting plans, pre-COVID, of what we were going to do with our retirement life. And now that the pandemic is over, we've decided to get back into it.

S3

Make good on those plans.

S2

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Open the bucket list and start kicking things off.

S3

So what are the travels that you have done so far?

S2

Early last year we went to... we've previously we'd gone to Mount Buller a couple of times and then early last year we went on a short week long trip to Norfolk Island with her and that was her first aeroplane flight, which was very successful. And then, previously, prior to getting Zazu and prior to Covid, we'd spent three winters in Canada skiing and living there and volunteering with a group that teaches adaptive skiing, which is teaching people with disabilities to ski. And we were hoping that that once we had Zazu on board and once the world was back to the new normal, we could get back there. So we recently, well, we've just come home. But in November, the 1st of November, we got on an aeroplane with a dog and flew to Canada to live for six months.

S3

Which is huge with or without a dog living overseas for six months is crazy. What were you doing in Canada?

S2

In Canada? Well, we still had our connections with the adaptive group and we were planning to go back and work there again. Well, it's not really work. It's volunteer work. It's volunteer instructors. And we sort of made a life for ourselves over there, a winter life that we really enjoyed. We had lots of friends that we made and some great connections, so we thought it would be a good idea. And I have to say that that prior to going, when we use prior to having Zazu, we used to go I used to see people putting brand new babies on a plane to Canada and think, what on earth were they doing? And here was I clipping a dog in for 14.5 hour long haul flight. So yes, never say never. 

05:01

S3

I think it's probably those times where you look back and you say, this is it. How did I get here? How did this happen?

S2

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think when you're in the middle of it, having those thoughts and you realize that that's where you are and that's the only way is forward, That's what we did. But I'm glad we did it because I know it's possible. Now I know we can go back there and take it back again. And life was great having her there. She's part of our family now. And and if you're part of our family, you have to learn to love the cold and and love the snow. That's all there is to it. I mean.

S3

You can't strap on skis, but the rest of it, you have to appreciate ZZazu.

S2

And she did. She absolutely, absolutely loves it, is a snow dog for sure. There are a few times I have to say that going outside for toilet breaks at minus 27 is quite character building for her and for me. But she loved it, absolutely loved the snow and yeah, we had a great time.

S3

I'll have to pause on the Melbourne Puppy Care is about the toileting in minus 26 because I think some of us who get younger puppies around, you know, let's say July, yes think, Oh, it's really cold, you know, it's probably four degrees. Yes, yes. And you have.

S2

You do recalibrate what's cold... once you've been in that sort of condition. But she was very good. She's always been good at going to the toilet straight away and you know, in the minus 20s. It's a very, very quick trip.

S3

It's it's not dilly-dallying.

S2

No, there's no mucking around. We're out there for one reason and then we're back inside. But it was also funny because when I do take her out for toileting, I have to put on boots, put on gloves, put on a jacket, put on a hat before we can go out the door. She just goes out the door and then comes back in. But I think she used to give me the look as if to say, Well, why is this taking so long? All we have to do is go out the door. Come on, man, just...

S3

Just roll out of bed and get out.

S2

What's your problem? Yes.

S3

I mean, you know, Labradors are a breed coming from Canada, right? So absolutely designed for it.

S2

She was, we did notice while we're over there that Labradors and Goldens are definitely the dog of choice. And yes, she absolutely loved it. She was so well adapted for the conditions. And being black, she she showed up really well in the snow, too.

S3

Like high contrast, high contrast.

S2

Very, very helpful.

S3

So the thing that I'm a bit curious about would be the flight. What was the flying like and how did Zazu handle her first? I mean, 14 hours. It's a long time.

S2

She was excellent. I think by the time we'd got to the airport, there'd been so much. There'd been virtually three months of planning with all the paperwork that was needed to get her permit to bring her home. Taking a dog out of the countries. No big deal, bring your dog back in is a huge deal. So with that and all her vaccination for rabies and the tests and everything, I think by the time we got to the airport, I thought, I just don't really care what happens on this plane. I'm just happy to be on it. 

But we we had a carry on bag with everything that we might need for any sort of emergency dog wipes, puppy pads, everything. But she was absolutely brilliant. When we're in Brisbane International Airport, she'd been there once before and when I told her that we had to go to the toilet, meaning me, she took me straight to the dog toilet so she'd remembered where that was and you have to be... You don't really feed them. It sounds pretty cruel. I took a one meal that I gave to her in portions just really as treats. And then with some liquids, she was able to chew on some crushed ice. So virtually, if you don't put anything in the dog, nothing's going to come out mid-flight. 

And she's such a good traveler. I think she just thought we're off on another journey. I'll just curl up in a ball. And and she literally slept most of the way halfway in the middle of the night, I took her for a walk up and down the plane because I was worried she might get a [indistinct]. And I think while everyone was asleep. But no, she was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

09:53

S3

I guess it kind of is a little bit just like a long night for some of them. It's like, Oh yeah, yeah. Why are we sleeping throughout the day? Oh, yeah. Okay, sure. Yeah, yeah.

S2

That's right. Well, most dogs will go 12 hours overnight, No worries. So. And I'd already googled all the the assistance dogs toilets at Vancouver Airport. And we did try to use one at one point, but she turned her nose up to it. And I don't blame her. It was a pretty stinky thing. And it wasn't really until we got off our second flight in Kamloops and found a bit of snow outside that she finally was able to relax. But no, she was,she was absolutely brilliant. Very good.

S3

What was your kind of day to day like working the ski instructing, and what was that was you doing when you were instructing?

S2

Because I had her this time. I wasn't in a capacity as an instructor out on snow, but she came with me and we spent her several sessions helping to train new instructors on what a person with a vision impairment, you know, needs when they're out on snow. So she came as part of that. And then when we were going for free skis, my husband and I ski together because I need a guide. Obviously, I can't see the trees out there. So she would either stay in our the apartment that we were renting or she would stay with friends and have them look after her. So she, so we could go out for longer periods...

S3

Have a bit of dog sitting.

S2

A bit of dog sitting. Yes, a bit of dog sitting to the point where if I, when I put my ski pants on, she'd line up at the door ready to go upstairs to her friends upstairs. 

S3

Wow. She is a smart cookie, that one.

S2

She is a smart cookie. Sometimes too smart. Yes.

S3

So did having Zazu on the trip make a difference to your experience in Canada?

S2

Yeah, it did. Just walking around the village, having her guiding was great. And just the general day to day sort of stuff. You know, we're leading this exciting life in Canada, but we still have to go shopping. We still have to do all of those sorts of things. And she's brilliant at that. You know...

S3

A grocery store is kind of just a grocery store wherever you are, really, isn't it?

S2

Absolutely. Absolutely. And an airport is just an airport. And sometimes I think she thinks an airport is just a big shopping mall. Really? So you just you just. Yeah. And she's the sort of "fake it til you make it" sort of girl Anyway, so strutting through the airport like she'd been there 100 times before, but it seemed to work for us.

S3

She's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know my way. Yeah. This is Melbourne airport here.

S2

Yeah, yeah, we're fine. We're fine. I'm yeah, I've done this a thousand times before, but know she did a very, very good job.

S3

Was there anything kind of particularly funny or interesting that you encountered when you're in Canada, you know, say her interacting with the snow? Like in that way for the first time? I know that Buller is snowy, but it's not quite the same, is it?

S2

No, it's not quite the same. She loves powder snow - and if we'd had a fall, we would take her out and and throw things into the deep snow. And she would love to just dive in headfirst and then come out all covered in it. There were a couple of times we had a few road trips. One of them we went to Jasper and that's a national park. And I was a bit concerned when we went out for our toilet breaks there because they have like elk wandering through and oh...

S3

My God.

S2

Didn't want to come across something like that. So we did have some elk that literally wandered past the back door. But, you know, we were pretty, pretty okay with that. She discovered what a squirrel is, which is...

S3

So interesting.

S2

And very interesting. Luckily, all the bears were asleep. But yeah. Yeah. She did have a lot of...

S3

Do you have any future exciting trips planned?

S2

Well, we'd really like to go back to Canada again and take her. We are going back at the end or at the beginning of next year, but only for a short period. And her puppy raisers are going to look after her for that time, which is fantastic. But there was a small problem with a vaccination that she needed to come home, and that's no longer available in Canada. We had a bit of an interesting time over that, but once that is sorted, we will certainly go back long term with her again. But we just like to maybe do some travel around Australia to.

S3

See in your own kind of big backyard.

S2

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. We have a camper trailer that's spent most of its time in the garage because we've been doing other stuff. But yes, we would love love to do that as well.

15:07

S3

Not to anthropomorphise the camp trailer, but it's probably like, why are they all gone to Canada and I can't come on the plane too? Exactly.

S2

Thought they valued me.

S3

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh.

S2

So. Yeah, and we do. We've just had a week at Mount Buller, which she loved being back in the snow. There was zoomies to be had, so she was very excited to be back in the snow. So we will always and have short trips, but there's no huge trips planned yet. I think we're still in some ways recovering from the big Canadian adventure at this point.

S3

That is incredibly fair. I feel like doing kind of, I mean, small trips around Australia are not exactly necessarily small trips anyway, really. So it's... not necessarily a limitation if you only have to stay in Australia for a year, is it even?

S2

No, no. And I think, I think our next trip will probably not involve so much biosecurity. Bringing a dog back. Yeah.

S3

Paperwork side of things is not the most fun.

S2

No, it's it's huge. And the most important thing is you have to get it right. But having done it all now, I feel a lot better about it. It's one of those processes you don't understand until you've actually gone through it. And now we've gone through it, I'm sure we can do it again.

S3

In terms of I guess that's probably one of the one of the biggest takeaways that you've maybe had to some degree kind of going on this trip. But since the time that you've been together, is there anything, you know, kind of particularly interesting, like, you know, probably extraordinary or remarkable or surprising that Zazu has learnt or done?

S2

Well, I have to say that sometimes I think she's reading my mind. I know that can't be possible, but I'd swear she was reading my mind because she seems to know where I want to go before I've even given her any indication where it has to be. And she has this remarkable ability to find the car. And the car can be any car that we've come in. So even to the point where we were, we'd go on to the local shopping centre and I'd gone with someone else, a friend, and she had forgotten where she'd put the car. And I told Zazu to find the car and she found it for all of us. So that was, that was useful. 

But when we were in Canada, we were in so many different cars and it didn't matter what car we we asked her to find, she could always find it. That's her superpower, I think. Find the car. The only time she was tripped up was when we were in Canada and someone had actually moved the car from where we originally parked it. But but she even found the car in Canada when it was covered in six centimetres of snow. She still found it.

S3

She said it's the backtracking, that she's just she knows exactly which way she came and then how to go back.

S2

Absolutely. Even, you know, going to a mad, insane place like Costco and the Christmas sales, she could get in, get out. There was no problem. And and being who she is, she just she sort of makes her way It's like the trolleys just spread apart in front of us and we just walk on through.

S3

It's kind of got a powerful aura about it, really. She's. I think so. Yeah, I know. I'm, yeah...

S2

I'm in charge. Out of my way. Very important people.

S3

I'd say large and in charge, but she's really not.

S2

I know she is a shorty, but that's very useful too, because she curls up in small spaces, which you need when you want to put a dog on a plane or in the back of a car or somewhere. She's she's quite happy. And as soon as as soon as we're moving, she's asleep. If we're in the car, as soon as we move, she's asleep. If we're on the plane, she's usually sometimes she doesn't even wake up when it lands. Really? Mm. A couple of times she's sort of slid under the seat in front as it's landed and she's sort of woken up then. But she's, she's a very chill traveler, far more chill than I am.

S3

Which is, I mean that really kind of tells you a bit about the magic of the matching really, because I mean that would have been one of those things where had that not worked out, that would have been a deal, a deal breaker. But how how would they know that she's that good on planes when she's never been on one before?

S2

I don't know. But she she is so yeah, so up for travels. She's so up for adventures. And sometimes when I give her a boring day, I swear she's rolling her eyes at me. So she. She's definitely up for adventure.

20:06

S3

Is there anything that you didn't expect about having a scenario that you've now, I guess, encountered?

S2

I didn't expect the intense relationship we'd have together that we would be so connected. I've had dogs before, but they've been pets. But because we spend all our time together. Yeah, it's that connection. I didn't expect that. I didn't expect it to be such a smartypants that she is. Yeah, I think it's that relationship. I didn't expect... it's a different relationship, isn't it? It's not, it's... she's not a pet. She's a partner, really, isn't she?

S3

She comes everywhere with you.

S2

She comes absolutely everywhere with me. And I go everywhere with her, too. Including the minus 27 toilet breaks. Yes.

S3

Yeah. Can't say that I'm envious of that one. That really doesn't make me think about going and taking it. Maybe. Maybe. At least because she's an adult dog, maybe there's a bit less toileting.

S2

I think going to Canada actually helped us to seal the bond in lots of ways. We relied on each other.

S3

That's made it absolutely confirmed that that's the way, she is the one.

S2

Mm, yeah. And she knows that we are a team, you know, it's the two of us. We do crazy stuff together. Yes.

S3

Right. Yeah. Crazy stuff. Like six months in Canada. Yeah.

S2

Yeah. Yeah. That's sort of crazy but yes, I'm glad we've done it. You know I, I think initially when I had my first interview with you, I said, oh yes, we'd love, you know, we'll go back to Canada, not understanding what was involved. But now I'm glad that we've done it and I know we can do it again.

S3

And you know, there's other places, like Japan has good skiing, I hear.

S2

Absolutely.

S3

Yes. I've heard good things about Japan, Switzerland, maybe south of France or no, you know, south of France.

S2

We might have to do a bit of crowdfunding to get us to do all of those adventures. But yes.

S1

I'm sure she can give us off like a coin slot on her head and drop a few dollars in.

S2

Well, just stand her in the front of Woolies there with the other day. Actually, that was quite funny. We met one of those plastic dogs when we were in Canada and she was quite fascinated by it and went up and had a good old sniff of it.

S3

Did you see any other working dogs in Canada?

S2

No, we do. I did have a friend over there and she has a working dog, but she didn't have her with her at the snow. But no, I didn't see any others, but I know they're very mean. Zazu. We didn't have any problems walking in anywhere. Nobody, you know, wanted to see. Well, nobody asked us. We. We had no problems in restaurants, dog... it's a... Canada's a dog friendly place anyway. And everybody was obviously well educated as to what we're allowed to do as a working team. So we didn't have any problems and that makes life a lot easier too.

S3

Do you have any plans for what lies ahead in your partnership?

S2

I think as a partnership we just want to keep having adventures and doing new stuff. We still, I still I think at the beginning I made the promise that we were going to climb to Kosciuszko in the summer. We've already taken her up there once on the chairlift and gone halfway. That's one thing we need to do. But I think just in general, just to to get out there and do stuff. Yeah, do stuff like that.

S3

Do you have anything that you would like to share in particular with some of the people that have either made a donation to seeing our dogs or have even potentially followed Zeus's puppy journey as a sponsor Resources pack?

S2

Well, I'd like to say a huge thank you to everybody that's made it possible for Zazu and I to be together because she's she's made a really big difference to what I can do. And as far as my independence and sometimes when I'm with Zazu, I think I don't need this dog, I'm doing fine. And then I might leave her at home to do a quick, you know, jump in the shop with somebody else. And all of a sudden I go, Oh my goodness, where's my dog? Because having the dog makes life so much easier in those situations, especially when there are lots of people around or moving in public spaces. But then when I don't have her, it's so obvious that I need her. So, yes, there's that. I don't know if that makes sense to you.

25:05

S3

Yeah, I guess. I guess it's easy to kind of take it for granted. And when they feel like an extension of who you are.

S2

Absolutely. Absolutely. And because they're all about avoiding obstacles rather than finding the obstacles. Life moves really smoothly. And I imagine. Well, the good thing about having a having a dog is that you are so visible that people get out of your way. And that's great because they don't know that I can't see them. But when they've got Wednesdays, they're obviously they, they understand. So yeah....

S3

You're realising the obstacles that there are because...

S2

Yes, yes, yes. Um, because I do have a habit of, you know, walking into things when I don't have her there, which is, you know, it's not a good look, is it? I Oh, more than.

S3

Anything else, I'm sure you don't want to get bashed and bruised from, from things that exist in the world.

S2

Or knock something over in a shop. That's always embarrassing when that happens or a restaurant or something like that. But yes, yeah, I think I would just like to say a huge thank you because she has made a big difference, a huge difference, and she's a really important part of my life and the life of our family to when she's not working, she's a family member. So, yeah, she's very, very important to me. And I don't think I realized what a difference she would make. Yeah, until we actually got our act together and, you know, work as a team. Yeah.

S3

And now being actually together for two years, it's probably a little bit more like. Yeah, like, like that extension of you is probably a little bit more, more clear now. It's...

S2

Yeah, it's a lot easier. I don't feel like I'm learning to drive a car anymore.

S1

She's just there. There she is again.

S2

And she understands me and I hope I understand her. But yes, we have more of an affinity in a feeling between each other that you obviously don't have when you start out with the dog. Yeah. So we have an understanding.

S3

And her understanding is that it's probably close to dinner time. So probably, yeah.

S2

So she has actually come in and nudged me to tell me that it's that time of day in case I've gotten.

S3

I'm thinking, I was thinking, oh I think I can see, I think I've seen her a few times. Be thinking. Come on guys, please wrap it up. So I guess I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me on the show again and and chatting your adventures. It's always great to have you back on.

S2

Thanks, Harriet. It's been a pleasure.

28:14

S1

You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog Show on Vision Stray Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Debbie King and seeing eye dog Dog Zazu talking about their adventure in Canada and their partnership together. 

If you'd like to find out more about seeing our dogs, the work we do or how I can help, or if you'd like to find out about becoming a single US handler. If you're blind, have low vision. Head to our website at Vision Australia-dot-org to find out more. Don't forget to follow us on social media such as Instagram and Facebook or head to our Omnia film page for more episodes of this and other great Vision Australia radio shows. Thank you for listening and don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode of The Dog Show.