Mother's Day special: Sharon and Lucy, a breeder carer story

00:10 S1

On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show - with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I'm joined by Seeing Eye Dogs' puppy and breeder carer Sharon de Sousa, who's going to be talking to us about her life, volunteering with the Seeing Eye Dogs and about the life of Lucy. This is our Mother's Day kind of special, so we wanted to highlight one of our lovely breeding dogs, Miss Lucy. Lucy has had three litters and we're going to talk a bit about her life and how it has been for Sharon raising the puppies alongside, caring for Lucy as well. 

Sharon's been volunteering for us for a number of years, so it's a really wonderful treat to have such an experienced volunteer guest on the show as well. If you'd like to find out about Breeder caring, keep listening or you can head to our website at npr.org to find out how you can look after a really wonderful dog, either puppy or breeding dog, for seeing eye dogs as well. thank you for listening and I hope you enjoy my interview with Sharon. Hi, Sharon, thank you for joining me on the show today.

01:16 S2

Hi, Harriet. And I'm very pleased and excited to be on the show.

01:21 S1

Well, you've been around for a little bit of time, but this is the first time on this show, which is really exciting.

01:27 S2

Being a first timer, I think. I was quite in awe of, you know, getting on the show. And then I thought, no, why not? Yeah.

01:39 S1

Why not? This is a probably a good segue to for you to introduce yourself and explain, you know, one of the reasons why you might be on.

01:46 S2

My name is Sharon and I'm a breeder and puppy carer. I got into it quite by accident. I'd lost my own Lab of 17 years, and I was still grieving when I saw a Papakura... in a shopping centre, and I went up to her and asked her, how would I do something like this? And she explained all the information, gave me a number to phone, and the rest is history.

02:25 S1

After just a random like encounter as well.

02:30 S2

And I've got up to 12 puppies - now where's my 12 amongst the odd number of fosters?

02:42 S1

And I think if you kind of tried to count the number of fosters, I'm sure you'd be up in the many, many double digits.

02:49 S2

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

02:53 S1

So could you please introduce your... current dogs?

02:57 S2

I have two Golden Labs. One is Lucy, who is a breeder, and I've got... her daughter, which is Freya from her last litter. And they get on like a house on fire. They love each other. They very loving. In fact, they sleep back to back with each other. So it's very exciting sometimes to watch their movements. And sometimes we have a great laugh about what Freya is doing.

03:34 S1

Yes. And does Lucy occasionally give you that, like pleading look like, She's being annoying Mum, like please intervene!?

03:42 S2

Oh she does. And she waits a couple of minutes and then she'll say, Okay, that's enough. And she lifts her paw and she pushes Freya away. No, she doesn't bite her or growl at her, but she just pushes her away with the poor. And it's quite amusing to see, because Freya will sit and give a pleading look. Oh, I don't want to go away.

04:09 S1

That's so funny. And I like that she sounds like she's a kind of quite firm but fair. Mum,  she's...

04:14 S2

Oh.

04:15 S1

She's like, I've put up with it now. And now it's time to stop. Yep.

04:21 S2

Or what she might do is, she might get up and go and sit in Freya's crate. And then Freya knows. Okay, I'm not going anywhere near my Mum.

04:33 S1

Okay. She's... made an escape now. She's specifically... yeah.

04:37 S2

Absolutely. Absolutely.

04:40 S1

So how long have you cared for Lucy?

04:42 S2

Well. Lucy came to me in July of 2022 as a foster. My PDT brought her to me and said, Would you like to look after her for a couple of weeks? At the end of the couple of weeks, Britt phoned and said, we're coming to pick Lucy up. And I said, No, you're not. She's staying. And then Lucy stayed. So she's been with me through two litters. So, which would have been her second and third letter. And I kept a puppy from the first litter and I hope to do it again.

05:26 S1

One more, one more. And I assume that that's going to be looking at, you know, she'll be kind of looking at retiring then.

05:33 S2

Absolutely, absolutely. At the end of the year. Yeah, yeah. Once she's had her puppies and she's back to herself, we'll be going on a holiday in between. So and then she'll be ours forever.

05:48 S1

How nice. And what a lovely retirement she'll have, getting to stay with you guys forever.

05:53 S2

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the first things I'm going to do once she becomes ours is take her for a long drive to see her carer.

06:07 S1

Oh, how nice, her... for one of her first carers.

06:11 S2

One of her first carers. Well, her carer lives not far away from kennels so I get to see her. The second carer is in the regional area and that's how I got Lucy. So we'll be making a drive down.

06:30 S1

Oh, that'll be really nice and you can share some kind of memories and she'll get to see her in a, you know, slightly more golden years in a way.

06:37 S2

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I do share pictures with us. So she's up to date with Lucy's... 

06:47 S1

Business.

06:48 S2

Business, as you put it.

06:52 S1

So what are some of the best things about Lucy?

06:57 S2

Oh, the best things about Lucy is her loving nature, her beautiful smile. Every morning she comes to you and she put one paw on the the bed. And just to see whether you're awake. And then if she thinks you're awake, then she makes it, you know, her business to wake you up in full.

07:25 S1

A bit of a bit of a tail thump and a bit of a kind of nudge too. Is it breakfast time yet?

07:31 S2

Yeah. Yes. No. Mainly to go out. Yeah, mainly to go out. She knows she has to wait for breakfast. So she goes out. And just her caring nature. And I just love a two step in the morning. She has this little dance that she does with her two front paws.

07:52 S1

Oh.

07:53 S2

And it's just adorable. Yeah, adorable.

07:57 S1

For the context of, like, the fact that she's... what, five now, she's very much got a puppyish joy about her, doesn't she? 

08:05 S2

She's... you know, like, in a way, sometimes she acts like she's two years old. Then sometimes she's that mature getting to be granny type.

08:15 S1

So what has it been like caring for Lucy and Freya together?

08:21 S2

Well, Lucy, and it started off with Debbie. Debbie and Lucy together. The same. They were inseparable. They slept together. They did the same things that Freya is doing. And... it was absolutely a joy for me to see Lucy's puppy, you know, with her. And initially, I was a little bit daunted because I said, you know, I've taken on this commitment, but is it going to work? And yes, it did. I would walk one in the morning, one in the evening, never together because Debbie needed exercise. Lucy just needed her type of exercise. Totally different. Plus she had to learn. Debbie had to learn different things on the walk, whereas Lucy knew everything. So, yeah. And then came Freya. And once I'd got through Debbie and Lucy, Freya was a breeze.

09:28 S1

Yeah. Of course. Well, yes, if you've done it before. Right?

09:31 S2

Yep, yep. But in saying that, both of them are totally different dogs. Freya was a very quick learner. Debbie, you had to make sure you... it was reputation with them. Yeah. Freya was just spot on. You tell her one morning, and the next morning you try to do it, and she'd be. Yeah, I can do this. And, yeah. So two totally different puppies.

10:05 S1

And I guess even if you think about the fact, you know, they're 50% the same genetics, it's a really good lesson that... no two dogs are the same. You cannot assume that, you know, one is going to do one thing. And... every day is kind of different, and every dog is very different.

10:21 S2

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Very, very different. Very different. While they were training, Freya was a little slow to start walking.

10:34 S1

Ah.

10:35 S2

Because she, she wanted to put the brakes on and have a look around.

10:42 S1

So she's... so do you think she's, like, smarter that she takes things... maybe not smarter, but she takes things in better at home. But then when she's out and about, she wants to do her own thing a bit more.

10:52 S2

That was only up to her fourth month.

10:56 S1

And then she changed.

10:56 S2

Now she's just a pro. She just walks.

11:01 S1

Well, it'll be interesting to see if she takes after her, you know, follows her mother's footsteps then.

11:07 S2

Or her dad's.

11:09 S1

Yes. True breeding or training would be pretty nice. It would be a pretty nice outcome for Miss Freya.

11:15 S2

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm trying to bank on that.

11:20 S1

Our fingers are crossed.

11:21 S2

Fingers crossed. Yeah.

11:23 S1

Do you find the different... there's a difference in their relationships between Lucy and Debbie and Lucy and Freya? Like.... you know, do you think the dynamics are the same? Do they both kind of play or sleep in? You know what I mean? Like, are they both equally active or equally loving relationships? Does that make sense?

11:40 S2

Equally active, equally loving. And we're still in touch with Debbie.

11:48 S1

Oh how nice.

11:50 S2

So we see Debbie from time to time. Yeah. And they all get on like a house on fire. Mum and her two babies. Just beautiful.

12:03 S1

Oh, it must be a very special part of your breeder caring journey to really... I guess have the end... kind of end-product the whole way - you know, to have understood, I guess, from the first updates that you get when, you know, when it's like, Oh, they've been born today and you can see that they're all between, you know, 300 and 500g and then, yeah, adult dogs.

12:24 S2

All the... little cuddly little balls of fur.

12:28 S1

Yeah. So... Oh, sorry.

12:32 S2

Yeah. No. Go.

12:34 S1

So... going to, you know, I guess, your lives together, you and Lucy. What is a bit of a typical day in the life of of you two together?

12:45 S2

Oh, we get up in the morning, we... go out and do what we have to do. I give her a good brush before she comes back in because, as you know, gold dogs moult like mad.

13:03 S1

Yep.

13:04 S2

So we have a very good brushing session, some corporate care, and then we come in and have breakfast, and... then I might walk her to the shops and back again and... maybe do an exercise walk in the evening or afternoon. But being an older dog, she does like to laze in the sun. So a little sun lover and still come in and go to sleep on the mat or on her bed, which I have three of one in the study and two in the family room, so she just chooses where she wants to be.

14:00 S1

Sounds like a pretty nice life for a breeding dog who's not in the, you know, when they're not in the puppy centre, I think people wonder where they are. Sounds pretty crazy.

14:09 S2

Oh, but she's... I have a strict... regime with... her exercise because, as you know, breeders have to be kept in prime condition. So it's weighing in, making sure she's not overweight, stamina-wise, that she can keep up with the walking yeah. And pretty much... and her diet is very varied. Like she might have a bit of banana. She has some blueberries - not when they're expensive.

14:46 S1

No, they are a bit, a bit pricey these days for dogs.

14:51 S2

Yeah. But... mostly fruit. Not. She doesn't get too many biscuits or little...

15:02 S1

And I guess that's kind of all, you know, part of her, you know, small treats as their balanced diet, yeah.

15:08 S2

Yeah. She doesn't get the fatty treats, let's put it that way.

15:14 S1

Yes. Look, and I think you've you've very much summed up a lot of ... breeder caring. Isn't it like that - that fitness aspect is really big.

15:23 S2

Mm, big. It's a big, it's big.

15:28 S1

So that might lead on to my next question - which was, Is there, you know, something that people might not know about or be surprised about caring for... or, you know, breeding mums seeing eye dogs.

15:42 S2

I think people take on... a breeder, thinking it's almost the same as taking on a puppy, but two different entities in the in the process of having a seeing eye dog. Breeder carers need to be very committed if they're taking on a breeder - diet, exercise, corporate care at the kennels... and be very... ready to take a puppy, a breeder into the kennels when it comes into season. Yeah. Which can be at the drop of a hat. and some people not expecting to have little puddles around. Uh oh! Think... well, you know, it's all right. I'll... deal with it. But sometimes it can be overwhelming. So you need to get them into kennels as fast as possible, and then you plan your holiday away.

17:00 S1

And get the carpet cleaner out in the meantime.

17:03 S2

Fortunately for me, Harriet, I have tiles almost right through the house.

17:08 S1

So even better.

17:11 S2

Even better. It's just a breeze to clean it. Yeah, but there's lots of other things. You can't leave them alone... for a longer period. Some dogs get anxious during, you know, their season or coming up to a season. So you can't have a full-time job without taking the dog with you.

17:36 S1

Yeah.

17:37 S2

Perhaps 2 or 3 hours, but that's it. Yeah. So yeah. So something to think about.

17:48 S1

Definitely. And it's one of those interesting things, isn't it? Like, you know, you can take them to work with you as well. Like that's fine. But, you know, at the end of the day, we're also still maintaining those manners, just in case they do go into other roles as well.

18:01 S2

Yeah. So and you, you've got keep up the training as well. It's not okay. She's a breeder carer. I don't have to worry too much about the rest of it. No, you do, you've got to keep the social aspect going. Make sure that they don't get into any trouble when you take them out. And a lot of training is still in place.

18:32 S1

I wonder if, because you've come from public hearing, if it helps you in some ways, because you've understood the amount of work that's gone into getting a breeding dog to that point, too?

18:43 S2

Absolutely.

18:44 S1

Does that make sense?

18:45 S2

Absolutely. Because you've trained a puppy, you know what the training is like, and then you just carry it on with the breeder.

18:54 S1

Yeah, yeah.

18:55 S2

And those aspects will continue till the breeder is finished her breeding program with... the Seeing Eye Dogs. And that also comes into play when you have a her or him as a pet, because you can't have a stud or you can have a breeder. Looking after stud is totally different to having a brood breeder... because you've got to get the studs into kennels ASAP.

19:32 S1

It's... a slightly different time timeline. I guess there's less... 

19:37 S2

It is, it is. And at least when you have a brood bitch, as we call them, yeah, you can plan your holiday and go away, but you can't with a stud.

19:52 S1

See, I like the idea of that, you know? I mean, it hasn't worked so far for me because I do work full-time. But I like the idea of timing more holidays based on Iris and her cycles. I'm thinking this is a good idea. Good takeaway for this.

20:05 S2

Yeah. Good takeaway. Yeah. And... if you have a puppy with... the the breeder, puppies can always go towards another person. And it's good for them too, because they learn in a different environment without being at home all the time.

20:28 S1

So yeah, definitely. So you might have kind of answered this with the previous question, but is there anything else that you know, any other advice or thoughts that you might give to someone who's considering caring for a breeding dog?

20:43 S2

Mmm, I would say, if you have the time to commit to a breeder, go for it. Because they're totally different from puppies and being a little more mature. They are more, I don't know, loving, I'd say. I wouldn't like to say clingy because when Lucy's had enough, she'll just walk away. Bye bye, I've had enough. No, but... it's nice to take them out because everybody says, Oh, they look so beautiful, you know. And I'd like to get into this. And I always tell them, do you know, do - because you can put your name down and you never know, get a breather. And we're always looking for greater carers and we're always looking for carers. So maybe not as a breeder, you might get a puppy and then start the ball rolling. Yeah.

21:58 S1

Well and especially like you said, you know, both of them have different... aspects to the program that might suit suit people either way. But yeah, there's lots of information on our website, I guess, about which, you know, which ones and which program you can do. Depends on where you are.

22:13 S2

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I've done a lot of to-ing and fro-ing between kennels with the breeder care breeder program. But that's me. You know, you don't have to do that. I like to do that because it gives me, it gives me and Lucy a chance to see other breeders and do corporate care on on site and, you know, watch what the other breeders are doing. So helps you... along the way.

22:50 S1

I guess... the note would be that there's always some element of having to drop them off to kennels. I think Britt...would, um, hope that everyone's, you know, you've got it. You've got to do a bit of... running around. But I think, you know, there's definitely like the fact that you do come in so much and you attend so many group sessions really, I guess adds to the experience that you get as a breeder carer and, like, being part of the community. Yeah. So, you know, seeing you out and about means that you are kind of doing all of the things with Lucy that... also enrich your own volunteering experience, which is kind of cool.

23:23 S2

Don't forget, she loves to go out as well.

23:26 S1

Yeah.

23:28 S2

She sees the leash in my hand and she's off to the front door.

23:33 S1

Oh I'm keen. Where are we going?

23:36 S2

Yeah.

23:38 S1

So just to finish off, is there anything else that you would like to share about, you know, your time with Lucy volunteering or about... breeding mums?

23:46 S2

I've come into contact with a lot of breeding.... dogs - Iris for one, and... other other dogs as well. And I just find this so different. So each breeding dog is totally different to the other. But... I've enjoyed meeting all the dogs and also the carers and carers tell you something about their dog and you think, Oh, I noticed that with Lucy, you know. And then it helps along the way as well to talk to the other carers... say how the other breeders breeding dogs... are... adapting to environments. And then of course the main thing is when they have their puppies, it's just awesome. Yeah.

24:50 S1

Even when you don't do the full yards, I mean, it's pretty special getting to see them from,  you know, that birth announcement email to the eight week mark when they go to their own homes.

25:02 S2

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you get to go and cuddle them. So and see all the puppies that, you know, have been born at the same time.

25:13 S1

It's literally a money-can't-buy experience, that one.

25:17 S2

No, you cannot put a price on it. Not a single dollar or a dime. No you can't.

25:28 S1

Especially when you've seen them through the whole pregnancy. I think that's quite special.

25:32 S2

I think so.

25:32 S1

It's a very different connection. Even if there were someone else's puppies, they're not as good as Lucy's puppies or Iris's puppies.

25:39 S2

Yeah. That's true. So true, so true. Yep.

25:44 S1

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing... yeah,ll of your story and some of the... history over so many years. And, yeah, for all of the work that you've done for Seeing Eye Dogs.

25:55 S2

Thank you. Harriet. I've enjoyed it very much.

26:04 S1

You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Sharon DeSouza, talking about her life and her role as a volunteer puppy and reader carer at Seeing Eye Dogs and the life of Lucy. 

Our lovely breeding dogs are in homes with awesome breeder carers across parts of Victoria. We are open for puppy and breeder carers as well as training dog carers. Now if you're interested in taking on a dog, the breeding carer regions are only open in parts of Victoria due to the carers needing to drop the dogs off at our site in Kensington, Victoria for breeding duties. Or let's just say so. If you are interested in taking on a lovely adult breeding dog, you can head to our website to find out more about Breeder Caring, Puppy Caring. We are open in regions across New South Wales, Queensland and Victoria where you can get that staff support. Puppy and breeder caring as well as trained dog caring are excellent programs and each have different requirements. 

Head to the website to find out more about those. But in all of them, our lovely staff will guide you through the process. You'll get a direct contact who will train you to look after the dog. You'll get food, equipment and anything else you need, including medical care provided by Seeing eye dogs as well as our wonderful partners and sponsors. It's another really great way to give back to your community, as well as having a lovely dog in your home and making friends, getting out and about and being active. There are lots and lots of benefits to volunteering, so if you think it might be right for you, head to our website and find out more. Our friendly team are always happy to answer questions, so please feel free to reach out and give us a ring. The contact is on the website or our phone number is 1800 037 773. 

Thank you for listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show. Don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode, or head to your preferred podcast platform or Omni FM for other episodes of Hear This and other great Vision Australia Radio shows.